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FORKNI-L Digest - 13 Nov 2001 to 14 Nov 2001 (#2001-344)

Wed, 14 Nov 2001

There are 30 messages totalling 865 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Name meanings
  2. poetic vision and Nick not such a nice guy (9)
  3. What's in a name -- defining Nunkies and Cousins (2)
  4. Nicholas and Lucius book
  5. Petition service???
  6. plane crash
  7. McLisa corrects herself
  8. AbFab <=> FK? (3)
  9. FK Ad Libs (7)
 10. LaCroix help
 11. Ger to appear at Stratford in My Fair Lady
 12. Petition service online?
 13. Nick not such a nice guy; response from the NadaNick&NatPacker ;-)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 13 Nov 2001 18:39:27 -0800
From:    Cloud <clouddancer@h.......>
Subject: Re: Name meanings

> Quoth McLisa: So, Nigel Bennett's name translates into an English
> phrase, more like Blessed Blackie.

Now I'm having visions of the gentle-hearted little horse that helped
teach me to ride. Only in this vision Blackie has a spiked, bleached
mane.

Cloud Dancer, whose parents saw fit to give her a name that needed
little translation...  ;)

http://www.geocities.com/cloudworley/clouddancer.html

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 13 Nov 2001 22:04:04 EST
From:    WRDRR@a.......
Subject: Re: poetic vision and Nick not such a nice guy

In a message dated 11/5/01 1:43:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,
klytaimnestra@s....... writes:

<< As a corollary, all the guilt Nick feels about people who die because they
 get too close to him, that we (and Natalie) think is completely misplaced,
 perhaps Parriott didn't think it was misplaced.  Nick was right.   >>

But I *always* thought Nick was right.  None of his previous relationship
ended well.  I always thought that if Nat had any sense she'd get the heck
out of Dodge City. Thus, I once proposed a new faction --  The Nada
Nick&NatPackers.  In fact, I addressed this in my 'book', which is online if
you're a glutton for punishment.  Nick is *not* a nice guy.  He tries, but he
is a serial killer.  We have often joked about Nat's predilection for serial
killers (her one date, LC and Nick..)  If Nick's problems weren't so
horrific, his endless angsting would simply be pathetic and boring.  But it
is *not* boring, is it.?   That's because Nick's instincts are a real threat
to mortals.

Casting T. F. Stone  / Caddywhacked
read my FK book at ftp://ftp.win.net/winnet/fkvoyage/fkfanfic/deangelo_wanda/
 and
V4S story
ftp://ftp.win.net/winnet/fkvoyage/fkfanfic/virtual_season/by_the_book.txt
and yes, I'd appreciate comments.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 13 Nov 2001 22:11:22 EST
From:    WRDRR@a.......
Subject: Re: What's in a name -- defining Nunkies and Cousins

I said it before--- Cousins want to be LaCroix.
Nunkies Anonymous want to be *with* LaCroix.

Casting T. F. Stone  / Caddywhacked
read my FK book at ftp://ftp.win.net/winnet/fkvoyage/fkfanfic/deangelo_wanda/
 and
V4S story
ftp://ftp.win.net/winnet/fkvoyage/fkfanfic/virtual_season/by_the_book.txt
and yes, I'd appreciate comments.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 13 Nov 2001 22:32:30 EST
From:    WRDRR@a.......
Subject: Re: Nicholas and Lucius book

In a message dated 11/9/01 10:04:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
knightfangs@h....... writes:

<< do a double-take on noticing the original owner's name (Nicholas) and a
note on the flyleaf ("Lucius, mon ami"). >>

You know what the metaphysical thinking is:  you'll see it when you believe
it.

Right now, I concentrating on seeing a complete set of FK on DVD under my
Xmas tree this year!

Casting T. F. Stone  / Caddywhacked
read my FK book at ftp://ftp.win.net/winnet/fkvoyage/fkfanfic/deangelo_wanda/
 and
V4S story
ftp://ftp.win.net/winnet/fkvoyage/fkfanfic/virtual_season/by_the_book.txt
and yes, I'd appreciate comments.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 13 Nov 2001 22:45:38 EST
From:    WRDRR@a.......
Subject: Re: Petition service???

Y'all,
I just signed an online petition for Wolf Lake.  Well, fair is fair.  I make
her sign petitions for FK!  So anyway, the petition is provided by
www.Petitions Online.com.  Does anyone know anything about this service.
Should we do this ?

Casting T. F. Stone  / Caddywhacked
read my FK book at ftp://ftp.win.net/winnet/fkvoyage/fkfanfic/deangelo_wanda/
 and
V4S story
ftp://ftp.win.net/winnet/fkvoyage/fkfanfic/virtual_season/by_the_book.txt
and yes, I'd appreciate comments.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 13 Nov 2001 02:37:37 EST
From:    Kerry Hewitt <Grindlehewitt@a.......>
Subject: Re: plane crash

       Saw the information on the news this morning when
       i woke up ..... the shock and horror

       It is good to see that everything is safe

       Sorry for the ppl that have died and
       there family and friends

       praying for you all

       kerry

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 13 Nov 2001 22:43:58 -0700
From:    Megan Hull <mistryder@h.......>
Subject: Re: poetic vision and Nick not such a nice guy

>Nick is *not* a nice guy.  He tries, but he
>is a serial killer.
>That's because Nick's instincts are a real threat
>to mortals.

OK, this is one I can't leave alone.  Are you trying to lay on us that a
person's 'nature' determines whether they are good or     , reguardless of
their personal choices?!?!  Because there are some of us who have managed to
inherit (or, if you beleive in life before birth, bring with us) a
predelection for         .  Heck, we all have urges and things in our
'nature' that we'd rather not be there.  But the whole point of life is to
learn to overcome those things, just as Nick is trying to do.  To be honest,
I have a perfectly       temper.  When I loose it, I literally see red and
loose all control of my actions.  (You can ask any one of my siblings if you
don't beleive me.)  I've done some things that have horrified me.  Am I,
therefore, 'evil', even though I regret the harm I've done to people and try
to be a better person?
               -Megan

"Eternal nights too short,
How quickly melt away,
With all the love we shared once,
Forever in a day."

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 13 Nov 2001 23:08:00 -0700
From:    Rose Thatcher <dreamerextrodanar@h.......>
Subject: Re: poetic vision and Nick not such a nice guy

>When I loose it, I literally see red and
>loose all control of my actions.  (You can ask any one of my siblings if
>you don't beleive me.)

I'm vouching!  Living with her for 20 years hasn't always been a picnic.
you should have seen her reading the e-mail.  She turned so red that, were
it a few years ago, I would worry for the computer!  Megan has always had a
tendancy for         , but over the years she has gained control.  Sometimes
it's only enough to warn us not to get near her for a good hour, but it's
still amazing.  She chose to gain control over her emotions, much like Nick
has.  His emotions are a lot stronger than any of ours, and with such little
support from his family (and family counts so much) it's amazing he's come
as far as he has.  As long as he *chooses* to continue along this path, he
*will* get better.
Ok, done preaching. (whew, I'm not used to that.)
                         'Rose

Rome was not built by holding committe meetings.  It was done by         all
those who opposed them.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Nov 2001 00:42:26 -0600
From:    Eve Dutton <umdutto3@c.......>
Subject: Re: poetic vision and Nick not such a nice guy

Is it just me, or were selected words in Megan's and Rose's last posts
blanked out for everyone?

Eve.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Nov 2001 20:05:28 +1300
From:    Tracey Rayner <trayner@p.......>
Subject: Re: poetic vision and Nick not such a nice guy

nope, there were words missing on what I recieved too.


> Is it just me, or were selected words in Megan's and Rose's last posts
> blanked out for everyone?
>
> Eve.
>

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Nov 2001 04:28:49 EST
From:    BrandyKitt@a.......
Subject: Re: poetic vision and Nick not such a nice guy

In a message dated 11/14/2001 12:47:33 AM Central Standard Time,
umdutto3@c....... writes:

<<
Is it just me, or were selected words in Megan's and Rose's last posts
blanked out for everyone?

>>

Yes.  It's like watching an episode of Twin Peaks where the sound
died at certain points; it happens sometimes during Buffy, too,
but I keep the closed captioning on, and that lets me know what
was supposed to be said.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@a.......

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Nov 2001 05:22:52 -0800
From:    Emily <emilymhanson@y.......>
Subject: Re: poetic vision and Nick not such a nice guy

It's not just you.  Hmm...so is someone censoring our e-mail now?

(Twilight Zone theme starts up)

Emily

--- Eve Dutton <umdutto3@c.......> wrote:
> Is it just me, or were selected words in Megan's and Rose's last
> posts blanked out for everyone?

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:28:09 -0500
From:    Lisa McDavid <mclisa@m.......>
Subject: McLisa corrects herself

McLisa blushes, hangs her head and apologizes. Two things from my Names post
yesterday need correcting.

1. After checking Withycombe's Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names, I
find that although the meaning of Niall (Irish original of Nigel) is uncertain,
one conjecture is a pet form of the word for "champion." The "little
black/blackie" part is correct as the literal meaning of the Latin form, Nigel.

2. After I was asked about Batsheva as the origin of Elizabeth/Lisa, I realized
that I had the wrong Hebrew name. Batsheva does mean "daughter of the oath."
However, that name is Bathsheba in English. Elizabeth is an English form of
Elisheva, "God has sworn" or "Oath of God." As you can see, the two names are
related but they aren't the same.

McLisa, wondering how to say "idiot" in either Scottish or Irish Gaelic. <g> I
read in an Israeli government humorous tourist pamphlet some years ago that
"idiot" occurs in Hebrew as far back as the Talmud, meaning "idiot." :)
mclisa@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:37:42 -0500
From:    Tim Phillips <Timp@d.......>
Subject: AbFab <=> FK?

Did anyone else catch that in the ending credits of the Absolutely
Fabulous special that was running Sunday night, there was a line

  With Special Thanks to La Croix    ?

        AbFab is not the sort of entertainment that I would figure the
General for.  Must be expanding his interests as he eases into
middle-age.
                        Tim


 Tim Phillips
 timp@d.......

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:18:46 -0800
From:    Eric McCann <egmccann@t.......>
Subject: Re: poetic vision and Nick not such a nice guy

At 12:42 AM 11/14/01 -0600, you wrote:
>Is it just me, or were selected words in Megan's and Rose's last posts
>blanked out for everyone?
>
>Eve.


Yep.

I just filled them in with words of my own choosing.
Made an interesting post even more so. <g>

-Eric

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Nov 2001 06:56:35 -0800
From:    Ith <ithildin@o.......>
Subject: Re: What's in a name -- defining Nunkies and Cousins

At 10:11 PM 11/13/2001 -0500, WRDRR@a....... wrote:
>I said it before--- Cousins want to be LaCroix.
>Nunkies Anonymous want to be *with* LaCroix.

I'm a Cousin, and I don't want to be LaCroix, nor do I really want to spend
any quality time with him <g> I'd prefer not to be lunch, or dinner, as the
case may be! I do find the character fascinating. Sort of like a man-eating
tiger in the wild or something. That's the closest analogy, for me, I can
come up with. Fascinating but lethal.

  -=- Denise = ithildin@o....... = http://ondragonswing.com
  -=- Vampires, Floth demons.... Do you know what is
  -=- really, really evil? Tequila. ~ Cordelia ~ 'Angel'
  -=- Bloodties Repository http://ondragonswing.com/tales/bloodties.htm
  -=- Star Trek:The First Generation http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ST_FirstGen

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Nov 2001 10:23:42 -0500
From:    Portia Eins <portia1@m.......>
Subject: FK Ad Libs

Sort of a list "Mad Lib!"  Kind of a cool idea! "g"

Words or phrases optional:

Nicholas wasn't the only ________, but LaCroix decided that ________.
"___________," exclaimed Janette, while Natalie quietly went about _________.
That will _________, she thought to herself.  See if I __________, next time!
And all the while, Vachon __________.

OR, more in keeping with the original example:

McLisa never did ___________.  Luckily, the List Gardiner wasn't afraid to
____________.  However, when Tim ________, Kyer wasn't _________.  And who would
have expected Molly to _________!  Well, evidently Kylie did, because why else
__________?  But why Diane _______ was always to be a mystery.  Why, if it
hadn't been for Elise and her ___________, the N&N Pack and the UFfers would
have __________!  Of course, David ___________, along with ___________ and
___________.  But, as usual, Portia once more _____________.  And the stain
never did _____________!!!

Portia, "eg"

Forever Knight TV show <FORKNI-L@l.......> wrote:
Yep.
I just filled them in with words of my own choosing.
Made an interesting post even more so.
-Eric

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Nov 2001 11:18:59 EST
From:    BJDFKFan@a.......
Subject: Re: AbFab <=> FK?

<<<  in the ending credits of the Absolutely Fabulous special...
there was a line With Special Thanks to La Croix?  AbFab is not the sort of
entertainment that I would figure the General for.  Must be expanding his
interests as he eases into middle-age.  >>>

LOL!  I can just see the General as a high-fashion designer...designing
horrible outfits and then laughing privately about all the mere humans who
spend thousands buying them.  (For anyone who doesn't know, Christian LaCroix
is a designer who is mentioned frequently on AbFab.  My favorite AbFab-FK
"crossover" line..."LaCroix, sweetie, LaCroix!")

Becky
at work and therefore sigless

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:41:17 -0600
From:    Cassandra A Disiere <cdisiere@j.......>
Subject: Re: LaCroix help

On Mon, 12 Nov 2001 13:21:54 -0700 Michelle <mlp9@d.......>
writes:
> >Does anyone know the link (or links) to the sound bite, er... byte... of
> >LaCroix saying, "If you love something, let it go. If it doesn't come
> >back, hunt it down and kill it."?

> Yep! Its on the first soundtrack CD.

First soundtrack CD, track number ten.  The correct saying is:  "If you
love something, let it.  If it doesn't return, hunt it down and kill it."
 What can I say, the saying is one of my best friend's favorite.  Sorry
if I broke one of the list rules, but I just had to comment on the
incorrectly quoted quote.

Nichole

"I am what I am, and I don't think Betty Ford takes vampires."
               ~Detective Nick Knight/Nicholas de Brabant "Forever Knight"

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Nov 2001 11:34:13 -0500
From:    Lisa McDavid <mclisa@m.......>
Subject: Re: FK Ad Libs

Portian and Eric contributed:


And McLisa fills in
Words or phrases optional:

Nicholas wasn't the only Harry Potter enthusiast, but LaCroix decided that was
enough. "Nicolah, you really _are_ the eternal boy!" exclaimed Janette, while
Natalie quietly went about distributing Hogwarts house badges to Tracy, Screed
and Denise Reece.  That will keep some of us out of trouble for a while, she
thought to herself.  See if I warn them about extra daylight savings emergency
announcements, next time!  And all the while, Vachon continued blinking at Reece
in his Santa Claus suit.

OR, more in keeping with the original example:

McLisa never did wake up enough to think clearly before 10 am.  Luckily, the
List Gardiner wasn't afraid to use a macro multiple nopost command.  However,
when Tim got in before that with a forward from the Hamster Dance site, Kyer
wasn't about to argue with the Three Little Kittens..  And who would have
expected Molly to announce her change to Knightiedom!  Well, evidently Kylie
did, because why else would she have sent in the url for that picture of Nick's
loft with 6,713 cats with LaCroix's faces in it?  But why Diane joined the Perks
Angels motorcycles gang was always to be a mystery.  Why, if it hadn't been for
Elise and her fire hose, the N&N Pack and the UFfers would have would have have
required U.N. peacekeeping intervention.!  Of course, David Letterman, along
with 47 tap dancing Enforcers which can_be attributed to funny mushrooms in the
blood supply presented Perry and Sydney on stupid pet tricks  and were creamed
by a low-flying tomato.  But, as usual, Portia once more sat serenely on top of
the station, pouring spaghetti sauce on all factions equally.  And the stain
never did appear because it was much too old and powerful for that!!!

McLisa
mclisa@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Nov 2001 11:47:53 -0500
From:    Tim Phillips <Timp@d.......>
Subject: Re: AbFab <=> FK?

>  (For anyone who doesn't know, Christian LaCroix
> is a designer who is mentioned frequently on AbFab.  My favorite AbFab-FK
> "crossover" line..."LaCroix, sweetie, LaCroix!")
        Anyone ever seen Christian LaCroix in daylight?

                Tim
 Tim Phillips
 timp@d.......

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Nov 2001 09:41:17 -0800
From:    "K. C. Smith" <tigrlady2u@j.......>
Subject: Re: FK Ad Libs

LOL McLisa!  :-)

KC Smith
tigrlady2u@j.......
"I've never met a chocolate I didn't like."

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Nov 2001 12:43:50 -0500
From:    Portia <portia1@m.......>
Subject: Re: FK Ad Libs

McL -- OHMAHGOSH!!!!  Someone send over a seamstress 'cause I have busted a
seam!!!!  LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

Portia

----- Original Message -----
> And McLisa fills in

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Nov 2001 19:04:34 +0100
From:    Cloudrider Siri <cloudrider@a.......>
Subject: Re: poetic vision and Nick not such a nice guy

> Nick is *not* a nice guy.  He tries, but he is a serial killer.

> .... a person's 'nature' determines whether they are good or     , reguardless
> of their personal choices?!?!

Okay, looking again from my strictly Light Knightie viewpoint (killing humans
is bad, vamp or not <g>)
Regarding Nick's character, there seem to be two extreme views at opposite
ends of the spectrum:
1) He's a nice guy and doesn't want to kill. That makes him harmless.
    Therefore his angsting is nonsense and pathetic. (Quite popular in fanfic?)
2) He's a serial killer, therefore a bad guy and guilty.

My personal version simply lies in the middle:
Of course he's nice, but that doesn't mean he weren't dangerous or innocent.
He's a nice guy in the body of a dangerous serial killer, that is almost
impossible to control. That he tries it with all his might makes him a hero IMO,
but if he loses the struggle and kills, he must still take the blame. He can't
say I didn't want it to happen, so forget it. A tragic hero. Still a good guy.

Cloudrider

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Nov 2001 14:07:33 EST
From:    Lynne Ackerman <Lynnea212@a.......>
Subject: Ger to appear at Stratford in My Fair Lady

November 14, 2001

There was an article in yesterday's Toronto Star <thestar.com> to *finally*
confirm (rumours had been circulating for months) that Ger will be appearing
at Stratford (Ontario, Canada) next year, playing Henry Higgins in My Fair
Lady.  Cynthia Dale will play Eliza Doolittle.  I don't think she was ever in
FK, but her sister Jennifer played the Countess in If Looks Could Kill.  And
Cynthia appeared with Ger at the opening gala for the Hummingbird Centre here
a few years ago, which I know quite a few fans attended.

Colm Feore is playing the Henry Higgins role first, from May 28 to July 13.
Neither he nor Ger can do the role for the full season because of other
commitments, so they're "sharing" it in turn.  Ger takes over the role from
July 14 to September 14.  After that the role will be played by Richard
Monette, Stratford's artistic director, and also the director of this
production of My Fair Lady.

A message from Lynne Ackerman in Toronto (or, as we like to call it,
"Hollywood North").  Via e-mail:  lynnea212@a.......
                          ** Help support Forever Knight.  Ask me how. **

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Nov 2001 12:30:07 -0700
From:    Laudon1965 <Laudon1965@c.......>
Subject: Re: FK Ad Libs

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lisa McDavid" <mclisa@m.......>

<snip>
>Of course, David Letterman, along with 47 tap dancing Enforcers which
>can_be attributed to funny mushrooms in the blood
>supply presented Perry and Sydney on stupid pet tricks  and were creamed by
>a low-flying tomato. <snip>

I find your mention of mushrooms very telling, McL.  It's the only thing to
explain this. <g>

Laurie of the Isles
Who suspects McLisa has
been at a bottle marked
"Drink Me" <g>

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Nov 2001 14:38:19 EST
From:    WRDRR@a.......
Subject: Re: Petition service online?

To: FORKNI-L@l.......
X-NZ-Hop-Count: 1

Y'all,
I just signed an online petition for Wolf Lake.  Well, fair is fair.  I make
her sign petitions for FK!  So anyway, the petition is provided by
www.Petitions Online.com.  Does anyone know anything about this service.
Should we do this ?

Casting T. F. Stone  / Caddywhacked
read my FK book at ftp://ftp.win.net/winnet/fkvoyage/fkfanfic/deangelo_wanda/
 and
V4S story
ftp://ftp.win.net/winnet/fkvoyage/fkfanfic/virtual_season/by_the_book.txt
and yes, I'd appreciate comments.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Nov 2001 20:52:41 +0100
From:    Lorin <vachesang@1.......>
Subject: Re: FK Ad Libs

> Nicholas wasn't the only closet Teletubbies fan, but LaCroix decided
that his own favorite red scooter should stay quietly hidden away.
"Uh-oh!  Too much Tubby Toast," exclaimed Janette, while Natalie quietly
went about making all the bad guys disappear, with a little help from
the Noo-Noo.  That will do nicely, she thought to herself.  See if I can
sneak up on a certain old General, next time!  And all the while, Vachon
sat on the hill watching the rabbit population dwindle, and wondering
just exactly where Screed had disappeared to.

>
> OR, more in keeping with the original example:

> McLisa never did find out who had stolen all the Rules for this week.
Luckily, the List Gardiner wasn't afraid to throw chunks of Stilton
(with deadly accuracy, we must add).  However, when Tim stood on the bar
and quoted the entire previous days' digest from memory - five times
over, no less, Kyer wasn't able to contain herself... um, herselves.
And who would have expected Molly to turn up with the most perfect Swiss
cheese fondue set and enough forks for everyone!  Well, evidently Kylie
did, because why else would she have dressed entirely in shades of
yellow and orange (with tasteful blue-green streaks)?  But why Diane
wore a purple faux leather ballgown was always to be a mystery.  Why, if
it hadn't been for Elise and her .wav of Uncle growling "This Never
Happened" at every opportunity, the N&N Pack and the UFfers would have
been fighting over 'Who Gets Nick' all night!  Of course, David just
*had* to set up the 'Guess the Cocktail Ingredients' contest, along with
a little help from Susan, who had raided the local superstore as well as
several Dollar Generals <tm>, two farmers' markets, and a pet store in
search of the perfect finishing touch to her masterpieces.  But, as
usual, Portia once more revealed her incredibly persuasive nature by
talking LaCroix into demonstrating the correct way to dance the
Can-Can - in full costume.  And the stain never did wash out of Nick's
naughtie nightie!!!

<sorry all, couldn't resist!>
Lor

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Nov 2001 15:16:15 -0500
From:    Brenda <bcammarata@h.......>
Subject: Re: FK Ad Libs

>And the stain never did wash out of Nick's
> naughtie nightie!!!

Hey, I love that knightie, not to mention what comes in it.

Carpe Noctem,

Brenda
UCCelebration 2000, Wolfville 2000, 2001

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 14 Nov 2001 16:15:08 EST
From:    WRDRR@a.......
Subject: Re: Nick not such a nice guy; response from the NadaNick&NatPacker ;-)

Note to the squeamish-
This is long but I had a lot of fun thinking FK over for this response.  In
the end, I found a renewed appreciation for just how great FK  is.   So if no
one has the stomach to read a post of this length, particularly when I argue
the worth of Last Knight and claim it got Nick into Heaven,  I know *I*
learned a lot.  So, Megan, if you don't read this: thanks!   WRD

In a message dated 11/14/01 12:45:49 AM Eastern Standard Time,
mistryder@h....... writes:

<< OK, this is one I can't leave alone.  Are you trying to lay on us that a
 person's 'nature' determines whether they are good or, reguardless ?!?! ...I
have a perfectly       temper.  When I loose it, I literally see red and
loose all control>>

Boy, did I stir the hornets nest or what?  ;-)

This is why FK is so brilliant.  It is mythic.  Look how everyone relates so
personally.

We are all trying to improve our flawed ego-based little s selves and become
enlightened big S cosmic Selves.  In our own minds, our errors (sins for
Nick) loom large and create huge piles of guilt. Change is difficult for
everyone - it usually takes the proverbial brick to the head before people
change.  (no pun intended)

Nick's flaw is visceral/physical but we all see ourselves and our own
struggles to be better through his efforts, because we all experience our
efforts to change as being just as insurmoutable.  If we can see someone
worth salvaging in Nick, who has, let's face it, *killed* a lot of people
(count 'em, very conservative guess - one per week for 800 years? - ouch, no
wonder he angsts) then there is some redeeming quality in us, no matter how
screwed up we are.  This is why stories like FK touch such a deep nerve.
This is primal stuff.  But *in* the FK Universe - which seems to be
Judeo-Christian, esp after Near Death - his problem may actually be
insurmoutable.

 And this is why I think that Last Knight's only great crime is that it ended
the series too soon.  The only way Nick could *absolutely* ensure he would
not kill again (after all, he just *accidently* killed the woman he loved
more than any other in 800 years ) was to fall on his sword, thereby
sacrificing himself for the greater good.   A true Hero in myth *must* offer
up his life at some point, not merely have big muscles and slay beasts.  A
tragic Hero offers up his life for others and pays the ultimate price.   In
fact, sacrificing himself this way, IMLengthyHO, shoots him right thru the
portal.  He wasn't supposed to do a bunch of good deeds to make up for his
crimes in Near Death. That was impossible.  He was supposed to go back and
*learn his lesson* : speciffically to undo the error he made long ago when he
thought living this way, feeding off the life force of others, was a good
tradeoff.  The lady on the Titanic turned down the deal when Nick offered it
to her.  She said she could not live knowing her life came at the cost of so
many others.  To truly make up for all those murders, he must give back the
very thing that for centuries he stole --life.

Let's remember the premise - Nick is a vampire.  He lives on blood.  This is
much more than a simple (as if anything is easy) personality problem.   He
*lives* on blood.  The probability that he will kill again is pretty darn
high.  He keeps saying he gave up killing about a hundred years ago, but I
guess WWII didn't count.  He sure enjoyed that VR game.  He enjoys killing.
It is what he is designed to do, the same as any predator.  You can put a
tiger on a veggie diet, but the poor animal will die.  Nick must have blood
of some sort - and it does things to him.  Zookeepers know that they can't
just shovel food at animals in captivity - they have to offer interesting
meals regularly ie live prey, or peanut butter to fish out of hollow tubes
etc. or they get bored, listless and even die from "failure to thrive".  Is
Nick any different?  He is transformed..  He is not strictly human anymore,
good looks notwithstanding.

He has good intentions, great ideals; he works his keister off.  We all
admire his efforts.  But can anyone pay attention all the time?   I try to
when I drive.  But hey,  sometimes I get a little tired, a little distracted,
a little impatient, possessed by a passing demonic spirit or shot in the
head.
Then I blink and drive right through a stop sign.  I don't do that every day,
every month or every year.  So far, when I blinked, there was no school bus
crossing the intersection and no one got hurt.  But at the wrong time  -  bam
- I'm on the front page for being a reckless baby killer of half a
kindergarten class.

Nick has blinked many times on the show - conservative guess, about every
five episodes, especially season one.  How long can he keep it up?  Will Nat
last ten years?  Twenty?  Thirty?  I have doubts.  (Do we *really* believe
all that nuclear waste is going to be okay-dokey for a million years until it
degrades?  I doubt that too.)  One of the recurring plot points is, "Will
Nick give in to the Dark Knightie Side for good, or will he claw his way out
of the abyss and make it through another day without yielding to tempation?"
And, like it or not, he does, against all his best efforts, kill her in LK.
I'd rather he did it 10 seasons later, but it still works.

One of the "masks" Nick wears as the Hero of FK is that of a Shapeshifter.
This is story analysis stuff here.  He is a Shapeshifter to Natalie.
Shapeshifters represent the confusion each sex has with the opposite sex -
men don't understand women and women don't understand men; ie S. Sizemore
pointed out that men think vamps are about power and women think its about
sex/relationships.  Both sides claim inconstency and incomprehensible motives
on the part of the other.  So in myth, the Shapeshifter is friendly, helpful,
even affectionate one minute, then opposing, vicious, even murderous the
next.  Werewolves, Vampires, and the Beast (as in Beauty & the B) are all
classic shapeshifters.  We desperately want them to get together because on a
larger, cosmic scale it represents the reconciliation/joining between the yin
and yang.  Nick *must* be dangerous or we don't really have a story, do we?
There is no conflict: there is no reason for the tension/ frustration between
them.  They could just get married and ride into the sunset.  Nick is a very
real threat to Nat's life, not because he wants to be, but because he is a
vampire and that is the fact (representing the mess of human crimes &
shortcomings to the audience and to which we relate) which he absolutely must
change or he will eventually kill Nat.

(Waves to fanfic.  All difficulties are solved in fanfic.  Put a muzzle on
the guy, eh?)

I think Nat has a real shot at curing him - but in the meantime, the more he
wants her, the closer he is to her, the greater his desire to drink her blood
must become and the more dangerous he is to her in particular
.
My suggestion?
They should carry on the relationship over the Internet until Nat finds the
cure.
;-)

But to make the story fulfill its classic format, Nick had to *decide* to die
for everyone's benefit.  For Nick to get cured would mean he never paid back
society for his crimes etc.  (does arresting a guy who commited one murder
make up for murdering someone yourself? -- *Not*).  In the closing scenes,
Nick cannot be a Hero otherwise.  He would just be someone who got away with
it.  Criminals get off easy; Heroes suck it up and take it on the chin.

Thanks for sparking this visit to my story construction notes!  (That's if
anyone is still awake at this point.)

Casting T. F. Stone  / Caddywhacked
read my FK book at ftp://ftp.win.net/winnet/fkvoyage/fkfanfic/deangelo_wanda/
 and
V4S story
ftp://ftp.win.net/winnet/fkvoyage/fkfanfic/virtual_season/by_the_book.txt
and yes, I'd appreciate comments.

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 13 Nov 2001 to 14 Nov 2001 (#2001-344)
***************************************************************


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