FORKNI-L

FORKNI-L Digest - 13 Jun 2001 to 14 Jun 2001 (#2001-187)

Thu, 14 Jun 2001

There are 20 messages totalling 592 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Susan Sizemore & The Enforcers
  2. war
  3. WAR: Limiting Factions and mixed metaphors? (3)
  4. fair use, parody, and copyright (was Enforcers)
  5. Admin: war settings
  6. war: any archiving?
  7. any archiving? (2)
  8. KtK auction update - Wednesday
  9. Copyrighted Characters  and GwtW ruling !!!!
 10. Nick's nephew Andre
 11. WAR: re: archiving (2)
 12. KtK auction update - Thursday
 13. A thought concerning the KtK auction
 14. Thanks!
 15. WAR: Archiving on Yahoo Groups
 16. WAR: any archiving?

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Date:    Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:06:37 -0700
From:    Stealth Mom <eleventhwarrior@y.......>
Subject: Re: Susan Sizemore & The Enforcers

Katrinka: True. the supreme court just ruled yesterday
that a sequel to Gone with the wind could be
published against the copywrite holder's permission.
That the freedom of speech clause now even applies to
using copywrited characters.

Anne: The "loophole" that allows publication of "The
Wind Done Gone" (a book from the point-of-view of a
fictional slave half-sister of Scarlett's) is that it
is a parody.  A true "sequel"--an homage taking the
original book seriously, trying to imagine what else
the characters as written would do--would NOT be
allowed without permission of Margaret Mitchell's
estate.  (The reason I was wondering whether
Sizemore's use of the Enforcers' concept was too
close.  I've heard of smaller "homages" being sued as
infringement.)  Intellectual property is still
protected.

If the writer's intent is to poke affectionate fun at,
exaggerate, even ridicule a copyrighted work of art,
that is parody and acceptable.  Like Mel Brooks'
"Space Balls" and all the skits on Saturday Night
Live.  If a writer is using the form of one art work
to parody something outside that art work, THAT is not
allowed.  A parody of the O.J. Simpson trial using the
language of "The Cat in the Hat" had to be called back
off the shelves by the publishers because of a lawsuit
by Theodore Geisel's estate.

It appears all the FK parodies fanfic writers create
could be published with the intention of making a
profit--at least, if they could find a publisher that
believed a profit could be made.  And Supreme Court
rulings notwithstanding, copyright holders can still
sue and cause a hassle.

I had read about "The Wind Done Gone" being stopped by
a district (?) court, then allowed by a state federal
court.  I'm glad to know there's now been a Supreme
Court Ruling I can read about.  But I'm fairly, fairly
sure it doesn't allow publication of a straightforward
FK universe story, using so many elements that the
intention of telling an FK story can't be denied,
without Sony's agreement.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jun 2001 17:12:37 EDT
From:    Questinc@a.......
Subject: war

set forkni-l +war

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:58:21 -0700
From:    Kyer <kyer@p.......>
Subject: Re: WAR: Limiting Factions and mixed metaphors?

> I think this is a good idea.   This reminds me of a road rally - as much as
> everyone loves the organized chaos and we all think, "the more the merrier,"
> at some point you have to stop accepting applications or it turns into one
> big traffic jam.    Is that an analogy?

Well, I believe as of now we have 13 factions playing, 5 of which are not
aligned to a single character:
1.  CotK  2.  Mercs  3.  NN  4. NA  5. UF

Is this a call for the CotK and UF to divide themselves between Nick and LC?
The NN between Nick and Nat?  The NA to align themselves with the Cousins?
And the Mercs to go wherever?

I dont THINK it is, but I want to be sure, because Kyer is not always
terribly swift on these things.

(Spoken in a worried and not a sarcastic tone, btw)

Kyer, the Paranoid Schitzoid CotK Knightie

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jun 2001 18:23:18 EDT
From:    Julia Kocich <JKocich@a.......>
Subject: fair use, parody, and copyright (was Enforcers)

<<That the freedom of speech clause now
even applies to using copywrited characters. So Now by the ruling, I could
write a book about nick and the enforcers, and have it set in Toronto!>>

Actually, the exceptions allowed to copyright
protection come down to "fair use" (i.e., quoting
a few lines in discussing a work), and "parody" of
a copyrighted work. The parody exception was what
was claimed for "The Wind Done Gone."

Thus, and this is the scary part .... if Libs wanted
to publish a Screed-Natsie romance, I *think* it
would be clear to most jurists that that was most
certainly a "parody" of FK, and thus covered <weg>.

OTOH, I don't even play a lawyer on TV, so what do I
know?

Best,
Julia
jkocich@a.......

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:47:40 -0700
From:    Emily Hanson <emilymhanson@y.......>
Subject: Re: WAR: Limiting Factions and mixed metaphors?

Oh, no, I don't think I could even decide between Nick and Nat if I
had to.  Well, I suppose I'd go with the Knighties in the long run,
but that's *only* if there were no NNPackers left.

Emily

--- Kyer <kyer@p.......> wrote:

> Is this a call for the CotK and UF to divide themselves between
> Nick and LC?  The NN between Nick and Nat?

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jun 2001 20:08:11 -0400
From:    Brenda Bell <webwarren@e.......>
Subject: Re: Admin: war settings

At 08:03 AM 6/13/2001 -0700, McLisa wrote:

>Send a message to listserv@l....... with no signature or
>subject and the command set forkni-l topics:-war.

>If you are on Fkfic-l, and aren't sure about your settings, the
>simplest thing to do is to set your options again.

Or you can issue the following commands to the server:

"query fkfic-l" (without the quotes) to check your status on FKFIC-L
"query forni-l" (without the quotes) to check your status on FORKNI-L

The response will include both your general settings (e.g. mail, digest,
nomail, etc.) and your topics.


Brenda F. Bell   webwarren@e.......   /nick TMana     IM: n2kye
Arctophile, computer addict, TREKker, stealth photographer...
         UA, PoCBS, FKPagan; Neon-Green GlowWorm
HugMistress of the Ger Bear Project https://members.tripod.com/~TMana/
Gerthering 3 Photos:  https://members.tripod.com/~TMana/gertherng/
Visit the Fiendish Glow at http://home.earthlink.net/~webwarren/glow/

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:32:58 -0500
From:    Monica Thadine Rodriguez <mrodri14@u.......>
Subject: war: any archiving?

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned on the list, but I don't think I'm
totally making this up.
Is there someone thinking of/planning/going to archive the war *as it
posts*?  As in, a place someone could go to to read the posts at their
leisure (or not so leisure, the usual reason for not participating in a war).
Yes, I'm still here, doing some hefty lurking, but ready to enjoy the war
vicariously.

thanks, happy warring,
monica
always luscious lucius lover

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jun 2001 20:46:13 -0400
From:    "Anita K. Blake" <AKBlake@l.......>
Subject: Re: any archiving?

<<Is there someone thinking of/planning/going to archive the war *as it
posts*?>>

I offered the fkfanfic2 site for archival, but haven't received any word
about it.

Anita

AKBlake@l.......  ~  http://x-menfanfic.50megs.com  ~
http://uhjfc.50megs.com  ~  http://fkfanfic2.50megs.com

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jun 2001 19:05:22 -0600
From:    kimmer <kimmertom@q.......>
Subject: Re: any archiving?

"Anita K. Blake" wrote:

> I offered the fkfanfic2 site for archival, but haven't received any word
> about it.
>

that is a very kind and gracious offer, Anita, and i for
one appreciate it, muchly!

kimmer

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Jun 2001 00:02:23 -0700
From:    Rustom Dubash <dirus@p.......>
Subject: Re: KtK auction update - Wednesday

Hi I placed several bids this afternoon to the link suggested in the KtK site,
but they never showed up. The bids I placed were for:
Pkg. #8 for $20.00. Pkg #11 for $15.00. Pkg.#4 for $15.00. And Pkg. #22 for
$15.00.
Diana S.
dirus@p.......


Knightwave@a....... wrote:

> A bit better guys.  <g>
>
> If your bid didn't show up, most likely someone came in with a higher one.
> If you see that isn't the case, Please let me know.  I'll be sure to make the
> change as soon as I'm made aware of it.  <g>
>

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:36:19 -0400
From:    Bonnie Rutledge <br1035@i.......>
Subject: Re: WAR: Limiting Factions and mixed metaphors?

Kyer wrote:

<snip> Well, I believe as of now we have 13 factions playing, 5 of which are not
> aligned to a single character:
> 1.  CotK  2.  Mercs  3.  NN  4. NA  5. UF<snip>

One of the whole reasons NunkAnon exists was because some people were thinking
about 'aligning' with a single character too much. :D Seriously, though,
NunkAnon's been a sub-army-alignee of the Cousins since War 8.
LaCroix = raison-d'etre.

In the WM's call to arms post, factions needed to:

<snip>Have a direct relationship to an FK character(s) or a clearly defined
role from a previous war (Mercs, Diehards)
Must have at least four active members (Independents should play as Diehards)
Must have participated in at least one previous Forever Knight war<snip>

I don't know about the active member counts, but all the above factions, plus
the Celtic Glow Worms fit these requirements.

<waves>

Bonnie Rutledge <br1035@i.......>
"If it's Thursday, I must be a NunkAnon Co-leader."

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:43:05 EDT
From:    WRDRR@a.......
Subject: Re: Copyrighted Characters  and GwtW ruling !!!!

In a message dated 6/13/01 4:35:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
katrinka@f....... writes:

<< True. the supreme court just ruled yesterday that a sequel to Gone with the
 wind could be  published against the copywrite holder's permission. That the
freedom of speech clause now even applies to using copywrited characters. So
Now by the ruling, I could write a book about nick and  the enforcers, and
have it set in Toronto! >>

    Actually it "isn't" a sequel.  The author claims it is a satire/parody.
It is essentially GwtW told from the POV of the slaves.  It contains so much
of the original story, however, it resulted in considerable litigation.  I
believe - at least according to NPR - that the Supreme Court ruling *is not
actually* a ruling on the content of the book.  It is merely a ruling
covering the legal protocals - in otherwords - someone has brought suit
prematurely.  Apparently, and again I'm iffy on the specifics, suit can't be
brought on a copyright violation until the book has been published.  The book
is not actually published yet and the GwtW people were suing to stop the book
from being published.  The court decided they couldn't issue sanctions for an
act that had yet to be committed (publishing a book that violates
copyrights).  It would be the same as incarcerating someone for intending to
commit a crime as opossed to actually committing a crime.  The issue of
whether the book qualifies as a satire a parady or an outright ripoff is
still unresolved.
    There *was* an approved sequel written and I think made into a movie with
permission of the estate.  Strangely, there are a number of dead authors
still writing books.  Jacqueline Susan is busier than ever these days.  Until
that copyright runs out, you can't assume its open season on the book
contents.  You never know who owns the rights and is thinking of resurrecting
the author from the dead.  It's all so very vampiric if you think about it.
;-)
    So for Nick's sake, don't take this case as license to start hijacking FK
characters.  The laws on copyrights have not been rewritten!!

Casting T. F. Stone  / Caddywhacked
read my FK book at ftp://ftp.win.net/winnet/fkvoyage/fkfanfic/deangelo_wanda/
 and
V4S story
ftp://ftp.win.net/winnet/fkvoyage/fkfanfic/virtual_season/by_the_book.txt
and yes, I'd appreciate comments.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:16:58 -0700
From:    rehatha <rehatha@m.......>
Subject: Nick's nephew Andre

Hi all

This is Rehatha here working on a bit of fan fiction.

In one of the episodes - if I'm not mistaken - Nick had temporary custody
of his nephew Andre (Fleur's son).  Now I know Nick vamped out in front of
the boy and decided that for Andre's best interests it would be better if
he wasn't living with Uncle Nick.  Was there any mention of where Andre did
go to live next or was that never mentioned?

thanks

Rehatha

(sorry if my last post was a bit old news but my email and I have been
fighting as to whether I should be able to post to the list, thus far the
email was winning and it's opinion was a solid NO.)

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:44:05 -0700
From:    Carla Martinek <copper6500@y.......>
Subject: WAR: re: archiving

Here's a suggestion to the WarMistriss:

We can use one of the fk-related yahoogroups (formerly
onelist and egroups) lists that I have.

The address could be subbed to the list and set only
to receive WAR topics.  All emails received to the
list are automatically archived by date and time, and
the archive is available immediately.

WarMistress: contact me off if you want to do this,
and we can get it set up.

-Carla
copper6500@y.......

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Jun 2001 10:07:38 -0000
From:    StormBorn <smolly4@q.......>
Subject: Re: WAR: re: archiving

That's a great idea, Carla!  On Yahoo groups, you can even look up
individual messages by message number, and follow that particular thread.

Molly/StormBorn
Cousin, Ravenette, Seducer, Dark Trinity, FKPagan
Abnormally fond of dead guys
smolly4@q....... or stormborn@l.......
http://stormborn.tripod.com/

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:11:46 EDT
From:    Knightwave@a.......
Subject: KtK auction update - Thursday

If your bid didn't show up, most likely someone came in with a higher one.
If you see that isn't the case, Please let me know.  I'll be sure to make the
change as soon as I'm made aware of it.  <g>

There are plenty of scripts offered, all of them in hand this time.  Several
new things, as well as another prop from the show are offered this time
too.  Check out the KtK web page for links to the auction or go to <A
HREF="http://ktk.8m.com/auction-start.html">auction</A>
((  http://ktk.8m.com/auction-start.html  )) for the auction page.  Directions
for PayPal are there if you decide that is the way to go to obtain one of
these gems.  <g>

Please let me know if you spot an error.  Sometimes I get to typing too fast.
 <g>

Wednesday, June 13, 2001  2:00pm

     # 1  $  5.00  Heather-Anne  Dying to Know You Script
     # 2  $ 15.00  Karen         Only the Lonely script
     # 3  $ 10.00  Karen         Feeding the Beast script
new  # 4  $ 15.00  Diana         Love You to Death script
new  # 5  $ 40.00  Karen         Last Knight script
new  # 6  $ 25.00  LaCroix       Father's Day script
     # 7  $ 25.00  Vicky         Blackwing script
new  # 8  $ 30.00  Mike          Son of Belial script
     # 9  $ 25.00  Vicky         Ribena package
     #10  $  5.00  Heather-Anne  Tracy poster
new  #11  $ 15.00  Diana         Nick & Schanke poster
new  #12  $150.00  Taliesyn      Raven matchbook prop
     #13  $ 30.00  Gail          Sweatshirt package
     #14  $ 10.00  Heather-Anne  T-shirt package
     #15  $ 15.00  Stephanie     Kapelos Autographed photo
     #16  $  5.00  Heather-Anne  FK book package
     #17  $ 15.00  Stephanie     Button collection
     #18  $  5.00  Heather-Anne  Play 'Art' program book
     #19  $  5.00  Linda         FK clutch purse
     #20  $ 15.00  LaCroix       Movie 'The Skulls'
     #21  $  5.00  Heather-Anne  Ger package with autograph
new  #22  $ 20.00  Mike          Nigel picture package
     #23  $  5.00  Heather-Anne  3 FK bags

Check out our site and see if there's anything that might tempt you.  We
appreciate your interest and help.

Enjoy,
April
knightwave@a.......
knightwave@j.......

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:31:24 EDT
From:    Knightwave@a.......
Subject: A thought concerning the KtK auction

I wanted to assure anyone living outside of the US that if you want to bid,
please do so.  Don't let your locale stop you from participating.  We've
shipped items all over the world after past auctions.  France, Germany,
Australia, Japan...we've even shipped breakables to China.  <g>  Everyone is
welcome to place a bid.

Enjoy,
April
knightwave@a.......

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:57:01 -0500
From:    Christy Stillman <cstillma@u.......>
Subject: Thanks!

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who's responded offlist to my
question about the website.  That's what I love about this fandom...there
are always people willing to assist a fellow fan.  <G>


Christy
cstillma@u.......

"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."  -- Douglas Adams

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:52:36 -0700
From:    Stealth Mom <eleventhwarrior@y.......>
Subject: WAR: Archiving on Yahoo Groups

Another nice thing about archiving on Yahoo is that
those of us whose actual participation will be
intermittent (even if our comrades continue our
virtual participation) and who have limits on our post
office box size will be able to go "web only," then go
to the Yahoo Group when it's time to catch up and get
involved again.

If this idea is carried out, be sure to add a link to
the War webpage for joining the group.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:56:21 -0400
From:    Cecilia Long <celong@m.......>
Subject: WAR: any archiving?

If some one can give me an idea how big these usally run... I would be happy
to archive them on my domain if there is not other spot yet.

I could probably archive almost daily but there are time I am going to be
gone a couple days... But I could do something if needed.

Let me know if needed!
--
Cecilia
Lady Ariadne--webmistress
http://www.wildbadgers.net
ICQ# 10820105
--

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned on the list, but I don't think I'm
totally making this up.
Is there someone thinking of/planning/going to archive the war

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End of FORKNI-L Digest - 13 Jun 2001 to 14 Jun 2001 (#2001-187)
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