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FORKNI-L Digest - 13 May 2001 to 14 May 2001 - Special issue (#2001-155)

Mon, 14 May 2001

There are 30 messages totalling 1003 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. On writing good xover fic
  2. Admin: Let's not take things too personally (3)
  3. Fanfic likes and dislikes
  4. what annoys me about fanfic
  5. things I don't like in a fanfic (4)
  6. Happy Mother's Day
  7. Milk, bread, FK... (4)
  8. things I don't like in fanfic - today
  9. FK Fan Fiction (4)
 10. FK in German
 11. WINNERS! Results of the 2000 Forever Knight Fan Fiction Awards
 12. Oh, No!  :' (
 13. OT: Terri's research paper (2)
 14. Rules are Meant to be Bent (01/01)
 15. Another deliberation
 16. Fanfic Top Ten (2)
 17. Need a quote

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 May 2001 15:47:42 -0500
From:    wirickml <n.debrabant@g.......>
Subject: Re: On writing good xover fic

hello to everyone.
As one who has never published fanfic, I applaud
all of you who have and put it out for all to see.
I have started some stories, but not finished.

I try to correct spelling and grammer as I go, but
I do miss thing here and there.

Xover stories are ok. I'd like to see someone do
a Remington Steele Xover. There are a couple
out there that were very well done. They fit together
rather well.

Some Xovers I must admit I don't really get, but that
is due to the fact I may have not seen the other show.
I like it when they stay true to the series, but I also like those
who stray a little. Makes for a nice change of pace.
Our FK friends would have a pretty boring time if they
were confind to a very small universe.

Please all authors keep up the good work.
And Sunny, don't leave. It isn't necessary.
There is nothing to forgive.

M.L.Wirick
NNPacker
"I'm Hungry, I Feed"

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 May 2001 16:11:00 -0500
From:    mclisa <mclisa@m.......>
Subject: Admin: Let's not take things too personally

Hi, just wanted to say that Sunny's post didn't mention anybody or anybody's
work by name, so let's not take it personally.  I have written a few of
those things myself over the years (most of my stuff's on the ftp site if
anyone wants to look), so I know whereof I speak.

After all, this list doesn't work without the free, civil expression of
opinion.

McLisa, climbing down from her pulpit now :)McLisa (Lisa McDavid)
"That will be trouble".
Listowner, Forkni-l and Fkfic-l
mclisa@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 May 2001 17:28:40 -0400
From:    calliope <calliope31@m.......>
Subject: Fanfic likes and dislikes

Yep, still here.  Lurking mostly, but this topic drew me out.

Personally, I see absolutely *nothing* wrong with posting a list of
fanfiction likes and dislikes.  In this case, they were stated politely,
and were clearly marked as a personal opinion.  No big deal.  I'm rather
surprised at the criticism the post has received--it came across fairly
innocent to me, and something I was interested in as a topic for discussion.

Personally, my eyes glaze over and I zap that puppy into the trash if the
story looks like it's going to focus on a character or two that I don't
care for (Schanke, Screed, Tracy and Vachon come most readily to mind
here).  And there are particular plots I don't care for either (Natalie
having Nick's baby zooms right to the top of the list.  Actually, *anyone*
having Nick's baby gets to number 1 with a bullet with me <g>).

We all have favorite and least favorite episodes, things in episodes we
loved and hated, favorite or least favorite characters, and so on that we
discuss here ad nausem.  I don't get why fanfiction can't be part of the
likes/dislikes discussion.  And I especially don't see why that can't be
discussed constructively and critically; fanfiction is simply an extension
of our interpretation of the show's themes and characters and should be
open for discussion just like any other opinion.

Cal
calliope31@m....... * NatPack
Fanfiction:  http://members.xoom.com/calliope31/index.html
Video petition:  http://lavender.fortunecity.com/casablanca/433/
"Believing I had supernatural powers, I slammed into a brick wall."
            --Paul Simon, Gumboots

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 May 2001 17:23:29 -0400
From:    Cecilia Long <celong@m.......>
Subject: Re: what annoys me about fanfic

I figure thats what my delete button is for! ;-)

I have to say I am one of the bad ones who keep saying I am going to make a
note about the good stuff, and just... never get to it. Bad bad me!
--
Cecilia
Lady Ariadne--webmistress
http://www.wildbadgers.net
ICQ# 10820105
--

 If you don't like a story, that's fine, don't read
it.If you read something you like, be kind and drop a note to the author so
she or he knows that the time she or he could have spent waxing the dog or
brushing the floor or polishing the mailbox or whatever was appreciated.

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 May 2001 17:27:36 -0400
From:    Cecilia Long <celong@m.......>
Subject: Re: things I don't like in a fanfic

Dont feel bad.  I have an Fk crossover that crosses with Babylon 5, Buffy.
Brahm Stokers....

ITs actually very complicated....  and its coming out rather well.
Thankfully I have gotten very good feedback from the guniea pig list...errr
victims...errr... readers on antoher list Im on.
--
Cecilia
Lady Ariadne--webmistress
http://www.wildbadgers.net
ICQ# 10820105
--

I must admit when I read Sunny's post, I did get a little discouraged because
I've currently got 4 FK stories which are in various stages of development
, and at first I felt maybe I should just quit writing
fanfic while I was ahead, but... I looked at the ton of complimentary mail I
got

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 May 2001 14:34:54 -0700
From:    Kyer <kyer@p.......>
Subject: Re: Admin: Let's not take things too personally

Everyone, when I wrote that rebuttal, (which maybe I shouldn't have..) I was
'sad grin'-ing all the way.  I *knew* Sunny had "put hand to keyboard before
putting brain in gear" without malice aforethought, because I recognized
that 'talent' in myself.  (God--have I seen that in myself!)

Anyway, I wrote that 'humorous' return in an attempt to mollify any tempers
out there.

Please don't hang Sunny, everyone.  We all say things we wish we hadn't.

Sunny, please *do* write your opinions.  Just..(and I've got to learn to do
this too) send them to yourself first, then read them like a total stranger
would and think "Is this the way I really want the message to sound?"

: I
Kyer, kyer@p.......
http://weirdknight2.homestead.com./index.html
Lover of Weird/Angsty/CotK/Xover Fic

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 May 2001 14:37:51 -0700
From:    "K. C. Smith" <tigrlady2u@j.......>
Subject: Happy Mother's Day

 Happy Mother's Day to all of you mothers out there!!
 Hope you have a beautiful and Blessed day!

KC Smith
tigrlady2u@j.......
Nick/Natpacker with Dark Knightie tendencies.
"I've never met a chocolate I didn't like."
"Opportunity may knock only once, but temptation leans on the doorbell."

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 May 2001 14:50:25 -0700
From:    Kyer <kyer@p.......>
Subject: Re: Milk, bread, FK...

> >Did you buy it? :)=  Jeannie
> No, I already have a copy. I figured it would best to leave it for
> some other FK fan in the area to find. Unless they're on this list,
> they might not even know the books existed.

Ack!
I work at a store that has hosts a book vendor and I hate to say this, but
I've watched them destroy many a book that doesn't sell.  (sacrilige, I
know.  I kinda mumble to myself through the whole heart rending process.)

That being a good story, I'd hate to see it meet a similar fate.  Can you
ask the store how long the books might be available?  If its still there the
day before 'doom's day', maybe you can snatch it.

Kyer, kyer@p.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 May 2001 18:17:59 -0400
From:    Cecilia Long <celong@m.......>
Subject: Re: Admin: Let's not take things too personally

Here Here Kyer.

--
Cecilia
Lady Ariadne--webmistress
http://www.wildbadgers.net
ICQ# 10820105
--

Sunny, please *do* write your opinions.  Just..(and I've got to learn to do
this too) send them to yourself first, then read them like a total stranger
would and think "Is this the way I really want the message to sound?"

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 May 2001 15:28:31 -0700
From:    Klytaimnestra <lbowman@c.......>
Subject: things I don't like in fanfic - today

re: Sunny's list, we all have a list, and every list is different (I agree
about smart quotes and lines ending in =20 though!) But something I'm
interested to see is that my list is changing.  For awhile I didn't like,
wouldn't read, couldn't read, anything that accepted that maybe LK actually
happened AND Nick and Nat are dead, stone cold, dead as doornails, gone,
unresurrectable, show's over folks, nothing to see here, move it along
please ...

But I gradually find that my feeling about that is fading.   I can now,
properly braced and fortified, at least think about reading and enjoying one
of those.  So who knows what I'll like  six months from now.  I may even
write a Nick-and-Nat RIP one myself.  (Well, and maybe not.)

So I beg all authors, please, write whatever you want - even if it doesn't
suit my tastes this morning, who knows what I'll want to read next week?
Please do not allow your creative impulses to be fettered in the slightest
degree by other people's preferences of the moment.  And I beg authors
further - please make sure your stories get archived somewhere so I can read
them when I get to them -

and thanks to all of you for writing stories!  It's so much fun to read
them.

And thanks to Nancy  for running the FK awards this year. There were a lot
of excellent stories up, and I had not read all of them until they were
collected in one place.   I was really tickled to find myself in the 5
nominated for "Novelette", too!  "Conversation with a Vampire" was the first
FK story I ever wrote, & I'm delighted it was considered along with so many
really excellent stories on the ballot.

Laurel
--
Klytaimnestra             lbowman@c.......
Fanfiction at http://members.home.net/lbowman

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 May 2001 15:57:04 -0700
From:    Kyer <kyer@p.......>
Subject: Re: FK Fan Fiction

From: Susan M. Garrett <
> As for my personal preferences, using "Vampyre:The Masquerade" or Anne Rice
> terminology to describe FK characters or situations never fails to set my
> teeth on edge - the first time 'childe'  appears, I'm so outta there.

Is *that* were 'childe' comes from?
Honestly, I thought it was some sort of reference to French or something.
Like putting in an accent on a word.  I was always confused as to whether
LaCroix should say it that way or not and ended up waffling between the two.

Thanks for the info, Susan!

And see, Sunny?  Your post generated some good discussion.  Every cloud has
a silver lining and all o' that!

:)=
Kyer, kyer@p.......

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 14 May 2001 01:29:37 +0100
From:    Anja <Narcus@w.......>
Subject: Re: FK in German

Hi Lisa !

>Having seen some first season tapes -- Yes, I do still have them, along with
>a very bad guilt complex and I promise to send them back! -- I agree that
>the voices and voice-acting were well matched. In particular, I liked the
>work of the actor who was Nick's voice  in German.

His name is Hubertus Bengsch and he works mainly for dubbing companies but
from time to time you can find him in TV series or movies.
He also appeared in the rather successful and famous "Das Boot"...
maybe you' ve heard of it.

What he does REALLY good is dark Nick... <g>

>Question: someone told me that the actor who voiced Schanke was also the
>voice of Duncan in the German Highlander. Is that correct? I thought he was
>a good match for John Kapelos both in sound and expression, but I can't
>imagine him as a voice for a character originally played by Adrian Paul.

Yes, that' s right. He spoke both characters and he is so good that I couldn't
believe it first.
Of course you hear that it is the same actor but only when you know what you
are looking for. I mean, the moment you watch FK or Highlander the voice and the
man/woman are an union and you don't find anything odd.

For Schanke the voice he uses is funnier, normal guy like and when he speaks for
Duncan his voice is more serious, kind of more educated.

Another example is Detlef Bierstedt, the german voice of LC in season 2 and 3.
He speaks also Riker from Star Trek TNG, again two VERY different characters,
and I only registered it when a friend pointed that out to me.

Bye
 Anja

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 May 2001 19:32:08 EDT
From:    Billie Lee <McCelt2000@a.......>
Subject: Re: WINNERS! Results of the 2000 Forever Knight Fan Fiction Awards

In a message dated 5/12/01 3:33:24 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
emilymhanson@y....... writes:

> Congratulations, everyone!

I am a bit late with this, but I would like to say congragulations to the
winners, nominees, and **thank you** to all those who take the time to write
fan fiction for us.  I wouldn't have the nerve, and my hat is off to anyone
who makes the effort!!

Thank you, Nancy, for running the awards so splendidly.  I did not vote
merely because I felt it would not be fair since I did not have the time to
properly read all the fiction that had been nominated.

Again, thank you to **everyone** who writes FK fan fiction!

Forever Yours,

Billie-Lee
mccelt2000@a.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 May 2001 19:45:11 -0400
From:    Cecilia Long <celong@m.......>
Subject: Re: FK Fan Fiction

I didnt know that either. I thought it was used as way to discern from a
regular "child". Kind of a fancy way. I kind of liked it myself!

I guess Kyer and I are out of the loop! ;-)
--
Cecilia
Lady Ariadne--webmistress
http://www.wildbadgers.net
ICQ# 10820105
--

Is *that* were 'childe' comes from?
Honestly, I thought it was some sort of reference to French or something.
Like putting in an accent on a word.  I was always confused as to whether
LaCroix should say it that way or not and ended up waffling between the two.

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 May 2001 20:20:33 EDT
From:    Kathy Whelton <KWhelton1@c.......>
Subject: Re: things I don't like in a fanfic

Okay, I admit it, I have pet peeves as well. In fact, they are
remarkable similiar to the ones that Sunny has listed.  However,
I will also say that in almost every single one of those categories,
I can think of at least one totally remarkable piece of fiction
that defied my preconceived notions.

Calliope's "This End Will Serve",  Dorothy Elggren's entire
"Silence" series, Nancy K's "The Reluctant Vampire Affair"
and Susan G's "Lost and Found" are all examples of some
of the best FK fanfic I've ever read, yet none of them are the
"type" that I am generally attratcted to.  It would have been
my very great loss not to have read each and every one of them.

I guess the thing to do is find the authors and the stories
that are most suited to what you like, but please try and
keep an open mind--you never know what you might
be missing when you hit that delete button.

What does disappoint me, though, is that someone
relatively new to the fandom can't post an honest,
intelligent opinion in a non-inflammatory manner
without being chastised for it.  I also can't imagine why
anyone would abandon a story or stories they've begun
because one person may not find it to their taste. It's
*your* belief in *your* story that makes all the difference.
Listen to what others may say, but in the end, you
need to take responsibility for the job you've done.

Cheers,
  Kathy
  KWhelton1@c.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 May 2001 20:36:02 EDT
From:    Libratsie@a.......
Subject: Re: things I don't like in a fanfic

In a message dated 5/13/01 7:21:38 PM Central Daylight Time, KWhelton1@c.......
writes:

>  I also can't imagine why
>  anyone would abandon a story or stories they've begun
>  because one person may not find it to their taste.

I want to second this. After posting my first JADFE story, I got flammed
TERRIBLY by two people I later learned had probably "ganged up" on me. I was
even physically threatened (one of them said I deserved a spanking<g>).  They
also threatened to get all the N&Ners to "flood" my mailbox with hate mail (I
later found out neither were N&Ners to begin with).  They were vicious - and,
yes, I remember who did it. When I posted to the JADFE list I was not going
to post the second part of the story. I lost count at response 100 of the
number of folks who then urged me via e-mail to finish the story. It was
unbelievable! I was very touched. And one of the women who flammed me, wrote
me fan mail years later saying how she eagerly awaiting *every* one of my
stories. She obviously did not remember flamming me.

No, I won't say who they were.

But my point is that I kept writing fan fic MY way. I love to write stories
from points of view I don't share, as those that are just pure fun for me.

Susan G. was right when she said writers MUST have a thick skin. I also write
professionally and if I didn't have a thick skin, I never would have made it.
Publishers will request or demand changes. Readers will be honest about their
likes and dislikes (which is great, as it teaches me to look at MY characters
in different ways). Even when I was in college, classmates and instructors
would tear my stories to shreads, and I'd HAVE to do the same to theirs as
part of the class.  Writing is a tough field, and you have to have a tough
skin be it fanfic or professional.

I've enjoyed reading the pet peeves because it has given me some ideas.

Libs
(check out my publisher's webpage:
Http://www.tandra.com
mature readers, please!)

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 May 2001 20:54:46 EDT
From:    Billie Lee <McCelt2000@a.......>
Subject: Re: things I don't like in a fanfic

Hi again all,

Kathy said: > >  I also can't imagine why anyone would abandon a story or
stories they've begun because one person may not find it to their taste.

And then Libs said:

>  I want to second this. After posting my first JADFE story, I got flammed
>  TERRIBLY by two people I later learned had probably "ganged up" on me.
<snip>

So I guess I want to "third" it.  Gosh, Libby, I am so sorry that happened to
you!  I think anyone who has the courage to write and post stories should be
applauded, even if not everyone like what has been written.

"Write on," as far as I am concerned <g>, and more power to all of you who
are out there writing for us.

Forever Yours,

Billie-Lee

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 May 2001 18:00:50 -0700
From:    Kyer <kyer@p.......>
Subject: Oh, No!  :' (

I sent out a private e-mail to Sunny explaining that she hadn't offended me
in the least---and it bounced back to me!

If anyone is corresponding with her, please have her e-mail me?  Or if
you're out there, Sunny, I AM NOT UPSET! (er...well, I *am* now, but only
about the bouncing mail ..)  I was NEVER upset AT you... only FOR you!
Humor is my way to rebuke in --hopefully--a mild way that will stick but not
scar because doing it at all makes me uncomfortable.  You're probably
feeling lower than a catepillar right now.  It'll pass.  I speak from
experiance.  And the only way not to never make another mistake is to be
list dead.  But you'll miss out on tons of fun stuff then, so I heartily
recommend staying put.

Darn, people---this is why flaming is so horrible.  We lose people for
making a *human* mistake.  How many writers and readers and posters have
been wounded by reactionary posting?

Please, Sunny!  E-mail me, and I will explain exactly what I felt about what
you wrote and why I wrote what I wrote so that there won't be any more
misunderstandings.

Kyer, kyer@p.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 May 2001 18:03:11 -0700
From:    "Nancy A. Taylor" <nat1228@h.......>
Subject: OT: Terri's research paper

With McLisa's permission to post:

For those of you who submitted anecdotes for Terri's paper on animal
languages, I have posted the results on a webpage. If you are interested,
you can read her paper at: http://nat1228.tripod.com/languages.htm

Nancy

Nancy Taylor   --   nat1228@h.......
Knightie/N&NPack/UF/GWDFC
http://members.home.net/nat1228/fk.htm
"The first hundred years are the hardest."
    --Wilson Mizner

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 May 2001 21:26:24 -0400
From:    Emma <elighton@b.......>
Subject: Re: Milk, bread, FK...

>That being a good story, I'd hate to see it meet a similar fate.  Can you
>ask the store how long the books might be available?  If its still there the
>day before 'doom's day', maybe you can snatch it.
>
>Kyer, kyer@p.......

People destroy books!?!?! <Emma faints>
Considering how long some of the books have been hanging around that
section, I don't think they do so, just order another pound or so
when the number drops beyond a certain point. But if it still around
in a couple of weeks, I'll snag it and see if anyone on the list
wants it.

--
elighton@b.......
Vaquera * DPheretic * T+Vpack * FKMac-er Head mouse clicker
Survivor of Wars 9+10
"Christianity is brought to you in part by Chevrolet"-A&E
http://members.tripod.com/~lostshadows/main.html

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 May 2001 21:44:18 EDT
From:    Javiette@a.......
Subject: Re: Rules are Meant to be Bent (01/01)

Leave it to Sue Clark to take this topic of conversation and create a
wonderfully funny piece of fic!!  Bravo Sue!!!  I loved it!!

Rae
Javiette@a.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 May 2001 18:43:20 -0700
From:    "K. C. Smith" <tigrlady2u@j.......>
Subject: Re: Milk, bread, FK...

 Just a suggestion here, but...
 Anyone that can get an extra copy of ANY FK book (or FK related) and
DONATE it to your local library, PLEASE DO!!!!!
 I have done that with at least three FK books and the librarians were
simply ecstatic.  Funding for libraries is often extremely limited, so
they really love it when someone donates a new book.

KC Smith
tigrlady2u@j.......
Nick/Natpacker with Dark Knightie tendencies.
"I've never met a chocolate I didn't like."
"Opportunity may knock only once, but temptation leans on the doorbell."

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 May 2001 18:46:12 -0700
From:    Sunny LaCountess <countessa2000@y.......>
Subject: Another deliberation

Hi to all!
Since Iím the one who started this I think itís only fair to take some
more responsibility and clear some things out. No I wonít run to my room
and hide under the blanket (never did that in my life, not even as a
little girl), and itís not fair to the opposition either. There are some
things I need to say mainly to prevent misunderstandings.

First of all I wanted to thank the list mommy for being kind and
understanding, and also a certain prominent FK writer whom I emailed for
guidance and gave me the best I could get.

Another matter is that although I regret hurting peopleís feelings I would
regret it even more if the message came across the wrong way. I never
mentioned the delete button. On the contrary, what I intended for the
readers to pick up from my message was to consider their dislikes before
condemning the stories. List your pet peeves, try to identify them (donít
post them on the list) and keep them for your own reference. When you read
a story that contains one or two of them, donít immediately go for the
delete button. Instead make a note of what you didnít like and try looking
beyond that. I once did it with a story and I ended up loving that story
so much that it not only earned my vote in the fanfic awards, but also
eliminated one of the points on my list. (For anyone interested, that
story was ďLast ThingsĒ by Mary Combs, winner of the General Short Story
category). Only if you see the pet peeves pilling up, or if they become
the major point of the fic, then delete it if you like.

We all have likes and dislikes and since I can remember, I enjoyed listing
them both. In times it helps to know how people feel about our ideas and
also to get a better judgment of where the fandom stands. The major
drawback of listing your dislikes is that people will get hurt, no
exception in that. And there is no polite way to put it either. As soon as
you say, ďI didnít likeÖĒ someone will read, ďIt is badÖĒ and would get
offended. Is it reason enough not to voice your aversions? My answer to
that is: I donít know. This, just like many other issues completely
depends on each personís set of mind. Ask Nick and heíll say yes. Ask
LaCroix and heíll say no.

Salute--Sunny

=====
Countess -- Twilight Knightie, Immortal Beloved, Dark Trinity, with UF and
Enforcement tendencies

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 May 2001 22:14:17 -0500
From:    eowyn3@j.......
Subject: Re: OT: Terri's research paper

Hi Y'all!

Nancy wrote:
>With McLisa's permission to post:<

Thanks McLisa, for letting Nancy post this for me.

Nancy also wrote:
>For those of you who submitted anecdotes for Terri's paper on animal
languages, I have posted the results on a webpage. If you are interested,
you can read her paper at: http://nat1228.tripod.com/languages.htm<

I just wanted to publicly thank Nancy for all her hard work getting my
paper ready and then posting it on her website.  She's a good friend to
put up with my lack of website savvy.  THANKS, Nancy!  You're the best!

I heard from my professor today about the paper.  She gave it an A+.  A
million thanks to all who contributed an anecdote to my work.  The ones I
used really spiced it up.  And for those that I didn't use...I may be
using them in further research in the future.

I hope y'all don't mind if I do a little more rejoicing.  I haven't been
in school for 15 years and it was a little scary starting back to get my
graduate degree.  I wasn't sure I could handle it but I made it through
my first class and now I'm confident I'll be able to finish so I'm doing
a little happy dance!

To keep this on-topic:  Congratulations to all the nominees and winners
in the fiction awards.  Everyone deserves an award for having the guts to
write stories.  And kudos to Nancy K for the wonderful, professional
manner in which she ran the awards!  Good Job!

Terri
eowyn3@j.......

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 May 2001 21:06:23 -0700
From:    Lady Ariake <lady_ariake@y.......>
Subject: Re: FK Fan Fiction

--- Kyer <kyer@p.......> wrote:

> Is *that* were 'childe' comes from?
> Honestly, I thought it was some sort of reference to
> French or something.
> Like putting in an accent on a word.  I was always
> confused as to whether
> LaCroix should say it that way or not and ended up
> waffling between the two.

It's pronounced the same (at least, the VTMers I know,
myself included, say it as we do in English.)  And
while I agree that using that spelling is rather
affected and silly if you're not doing VTM, regarding
terms like "sire," what else is there?  I'm serious.
I'm really trying in my pro fic to find some other way
to phrase it.  "Father" is inaccurate, especially the
way mine work, "sire" just reminds me too much of
horse breeding, and I'm having trouble coming up with
another word.  Gr.

Just to weigh in on the pet peeves issue--not only do
I agree that we all have our pet peeves, I'd like to
add that I don't think that "If you can't say anything
nice" should apply to reviewing fan fic!  In fact, I'm
more likely to review something if I *don't* have
primarily nice comments.  I'll always try to phrase
them constructively, but I find I'm more inclined to
say something if I didn't like it.

Though I will agree that sometimes you just shouldn't
read it.  For example, I hate slash.  Any slash, all
slash, doesn't matter the fandom.  Therefore I don't
read it because I know I won't like it, and it won't
be the author's fault.  Why should I heckle an author
over what is solely a pet peeve?  But I'm not going to
appologize for having that pet peeve, either!

Jennifer

=====
"Worlds are lost or worlds are saved/from the dangers dragon-braved."
(Dragonflight)

I'm not delusional.  Just ask my weyrmate or my queen dragon.  (Appologies to
Kelly F. for the cribbed line.)

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 May 2001 18:06:33 -0400
From:    Carrie Krumtum <carriekr@m.......>
Subject: Fanfic Top Ten

The Top Ten Things I Like About FK Fanfic....

10. I almost always go somewhere interesting with the characters and often
in a way the original writers of the series would not go.
9. The stories cover the broadest of relationship ranges. I LIKE all the
different possibilities in these relationships and I LOVE it that fanfic
authors explore them.
8. Nick angsting.
7. Nick not angsting.
6. The resurrection factor.  Screed Lives!
5. The resurrection factor. Don Schanke Lives!
4. LaCroix being pure evil.
3. LaCroix being nice.
2. 101 interesting ways to mention souvlaki.

And the number 1 think I LOVE about FK Fanfic....

It's absolutely FREE to me without warranties or attachments.

Don't you just love when someone else shares a vision of FK that gives you
goose pimples? I do. Thanks to all the wonderful fanfic writers out there
who have given me many happy hours of FK exploration beyond the boundaries
of TV.

Carrie, Proud Knightie who has been known to dabble in FK fanfic ... from
time to time.

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 May 2001 14:37:11 -0000
From:    Susan Mutton <susan_mutton@h.......>
Subject: Re: Milk, bread, FK...

If its any consolation at all we have to go special order to get FK stuff
here in England.  I would have killed for the bloopers tape.  Then you get
into the you have NTSC is it and we need Pal.  Its a rare lucky dog who has
a dual video machine.  Sue.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 14 May 2001 06:49:33 -0400
From:    Brenda Bell <webwarren@e.......>
Subject: Re: FK Fan Fiction

At 09:06 PM 5/13/2001 -0700, Jennifer (Lady Ariake) wrote:

>["childe" is] pronounced the same (at least, the VTMers I know,
>myself included, say it as we do in English.)  And
>while I agree that using that spelling is rather
>affected and silly if you're not doing VTM,

I've also seen FKFIC-L writers use the spelling "chylde". Is this of the
same, or different, etymology?

>...regarding terms like "sire," what else is there?
>..."Father" is inaccurate... "sire" just reminds me too much of
>horse breeding, and I'm having trouble coming up with
>another word.  Gr.

Lessee... "progenitor"? "Vamp-DNA donor"? Mentor (especially if Nick is
LC's "protege")?

While channel-surfing, I came across something on the order "Love in the
Ancient World" on A&E; they mentioned a word the Ancient Greeks used for
the older men who would -- for lack of a better PG description --
*instruct* prepubescent boys, but I can't remember the term offhand.
Perhaps that term would be well used to describe the vampire-progenitor? (I
think "hieronymous" was the term they used for the student/young boy --
that could then be used as a term for the newly brought-across.)

OTOH, if you consider vampdom a disease (IIRC, at one point Nat thought it
was some sort of retrovirus?), then LC might be Nick's "Disease Vector"...

>I'll always try to phrase [fanfic criticism]
>constructively, but I find I'm more inclined to
>say something if I didn't like it.

I tend to write to authors if I think something was particularly
innovative, or if there was something in the construction that could have
been done better; also, I'll write if I need a clarification (or suggesting
alternate constructions for future reference) of something I thought was
ambiguous, but the context implied otherwise.

I do try to read *everything* that comes across on FKFIC-L. This includes
stories where I don't like the writing style, can't follow the characters,
can't read the piece for all the =20s in there, the characters are totally
out of character, the crossovers that don't seem to make sense (or are all
but impossible to follow), the crossovers that I'm unfamiliar with the
universe, the slashes that don't seem realistic... While there *are* a few
writers I have had difficulty reading (for reasons of formatting, grammar
and spelling editing, or storytelling ability) and a number of scenarii I
find hard to swallow, I have learned to suspend canon (or more accurately,
my understanding of canon and of the regular, recurring, and guest
characters) enough to enjoy a well-crafted story written in someone else's
alternate FK universe.

This is not to say that there is nothing that sets my teeth on edge --
either in the universe, the storytelling, or the technical craftsmanship.
However, past performance is not *always* an indicator of future pleasure.
In the course of time, I've seen writers evolve from not being able to
construct a proper sentence to writing incredibly detailed, elegant works;
I've also seen very talented writers bring their series-fanfic to places so
out-of-sync with the original series' characters and characterizations that
they might as well as never been FK stories to begin with.

If you are interested in further discussing the technical aspects of fanfic
craftsmanship and criticism, we have a couple of venues devoted just to
that sort of discussion -- the FK Writer's Loop and the FKFic Discussion
List. Please feel free to join up and discuss what you feel is good, and
what you feel those of us who write need to work on.

Brenda F. Bell   webwarren@e.......   /nick TMana     IM: n2kye
Arctophile, computer addict, TREKker, stealth photographer...
         UA, PoCBS, FKPagan; Neon-Green GlowWorm
HugMistress of the Ger Bear Project http://members.Tripod.com/~TMana/
Gerthering 3 Photos:  http://members.Tripod.com/~TMana/gertherng/
Visit the Fiendish Glow at http://home.earthlink.net/~webwarren/glow/

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 14 May 2001 05:43:48 -0700
From:    Emily Hanson <emilymhanson@y.......>
Subject: Re: Fanfic Top Ten

--- Carrie Krumtum <carriekr@m.......> wrote:
> The Top Ten Things I Like About FK Fanfic....
> 10. I almost always go somewhere interesting with the characters
> and often in a way the original writers of the series would not go.

Definately.  Some Xovers may not be possible in TV-land because of
television business politics, but they certainly are in fan fiction.
There has also been some very good Nick & Nat fanfic that would have
never made it onto the screen (I'm not just talking about adult fic
here), but fiction that explored their relationship in such a way
that the show's writers might have wimped out on it.

I used to not read filks or poetry, but there have been some very
good examples of each lately.  My rule of thumb is, I give everything
a try.

=====
Emily Hanson
Main website - http://www.starbase-eprime.com
Web Graphics - http://www.galaxyofimages.com
ICQ# 73113057

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 14 May 2001 08:37:14 -0600
From:    Rose Thatcher <dreamerextrodanar@h.......>
Subject: Need a quote

Hi all!  My sis, Megan, wants a quote, but she can't acess a computer
lately.  She wants "They dance as if Father time were shooting bullets at
their feet."  But she wants *everything* Jannet says around that line. And
Nick.  ::sigh:: I just can't appease her, so please help before she
threatens to stake me.  Thanks!
                     'Rose

Rome was not built by holding committe meetings.  It was done by killing all
those who opposed them.

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 13 May 2001 to 14 May 2001 - Special issue (#2001-155)
*******************************************************************************


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