FORKNI-L
FORKNI-L Digest - 20 Apr 2001 to 21 Apr 2001 (#2001-131)
Sat, 21 Apr 2001
There are 17 messages totalling 679 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Vote of Thanks for Mel and Steph for fanfic sites
2. Divia (6)
3. Divia (was: would Richard like Nick?)
4. Birthday? (5)
5. Excerpt from book on Vampires on Film
6. LCA 4!
7. Divia (Long Post) (2)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:56:31 -0700
From: "K. C. Smith" <tigrlady2u@j.......>
Subject: Re: Vote of Thanks for Mel and Steph for fanfic sites
I know I'm waaay behind, but I, too, am grateful to Mel and Steph (and
Diane, too!), for all the work they put into keeping our fiction
archived!
Thanks, ladies!
KC Smith
tigrlady2u@j.......
Nick/Natpacker with Dark Knightie tendencies.
"I've never met a chocolate I didn't like."
"Opportunity may knock only once, but temptation leans on the doorbell."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:44:26 -0700
From: Klytaimnestra <lbowman@c.......>
Subject: Divia
re: why didn't Divia save her mother, unresolved Oedipal whatsit perhaps -
particularly given what she asks LaCroix to do twenty years on. Though I've
always had a couple of questions about that. a) why did she wait twenty
years to make a pass? b) why does LaCroix react so badly? I can see shock,
but why kill her? He could have just left town. Or he could have just said
no. Perhaps that was too simple.
re: vampire sex, however, I suddenly realise that that scene makes it clear
that vampires CAN have (normal human type) sex - because that's what Divia's
asking for, so she must think it's possible, and LC never says "I couldn't",
but rather "I was shocked". If all she'd wanted to do was share blood with
him, he wouldn't have been shocked, because after all, they've already done
that.
I have another question though. I keep seeing references to Divia being
raised in a brothel, being the daughter of a prostitute or madam, etc etc.
Have I missed something in the series? I don't remember a specific
reference that tells us it's a brothel. LaCroix isn't married to the mother,
but she could be married to another senator, or something, surely? They all
look pretty well-off.
Laurel
--
Klytaimnestra lbowman@c.......
Fanfiction at http://members.home.net/lbowman
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:54:18 -0700
From: Kyer <kyer@p.......>
Subject: Re: Divia (was: would Richard like Nick?)
From: Emily Hanson
> Being cooped up in that coffin surely induced anger over the years, at
> LaCroix and all things his. Who knows what would happen if Divia had spent
> any time with Nick, how she might have changed? I can see an alternate
> history fanfic here . . .
Oh, Lord! Divia and Nick sharing an Angstfest, each outdoing the other in
tales of tribulation at the hands of daddy. LaCroix leaving in a sulk
because he can't take it anymore of his blood(lines') whines. (hehehe)
:)=
Kyer, kyer@p.......
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:25:19 -0700
From: StormBorn <smolly4@q.......>
Subject: Divia
David wrote:
>>In terms of how she was treating LC--it was payback for his abandoning her
both as a mortal (while he was off pilaging Gallic villages) and as an
immortal (the crypt).<<
From Divia's point of view, she was probably behaving in a manner she found
appropriate, blood feuds being a part of Roman culture just as they are
still a part of Sicilian culture. However, I do feel as if I should point
out that LaCroix did not abandon her as a mortal. Indeed, we see that he
loved her (the cameo) and that he was concerned with her wellbeing ("How is
your daughter?"). 'By-blows' throughout the ages have been treated far
worse by their fathers. As far as Lucius being away from home, for whatever
reason, this was his *job*, his *career*, and remember that a Roman
paterfamilias' role was to provide for and protect his children, not be with
them every chance he could.
I often wonder, given Lucius' colouring and features, if the slur of
illegitimacy was ever whispered towards him?
Molly/StormBorn
Cousin, Ravenette, Dark Trinity, Seducer, Forum Fanatic, FK Pagan
Abnormally fond of dead guys
smolly4@q....... or stormborn@l.......
http://stormborn.tripod.com/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 18:42:50 -0700
From: "David J. Duncan" <dante0220@y.......>
Subject: Re: Divia
Hi Everyone:
I agree with Molly's synopsis of the
paterfamilias and his role in Roman society, the
familia, and toward his children..... I guess
the next question concerns how Divia would have
reacted to her position in that society and
familia (as well as that of her mother). The
disdain of his (LC's) legit kids and the other
members of the familia would have been evident to
her even at a young age...and thus would have
been the basis of her anger. The society (and
her father's position) would only have enhanced
her feelings on the subject.
Would she have been able to be turned back?
After thinking on the subject for the last 48
hours (or so), I now wonder. Maybe if someone
had reached her before the Ancient brought her
across. But, since her feelings were only
intensified through her vampirism, I now doubt
that she could have been brought back....
Oh well. Thanks again to Molly for her
explanation. This is a great conversation! :)
Next?????
Sincerely,
David
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 22:32:10 EDT
From: WRDRR@a.......
Subject: Re: Birthday?
In a message dated 4/20/01 4:43:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
tigrlady2u@j....... writes:
<< >He's 44 today. He looks a lot younger than that! >>
Must be that Welsh blood. ;-) I'm 32 1/2 and I just got carded at TGIF
<again>. It's those big chubby cheeks and blue eyes that do it every time.
Kinda the Opie thingey workin' for ya.
Vive la' Forever Opie
Casting T. F. Stone / Caddywhacked
read my FK book at ftp://ftp.win.net/winnet/fkvoyage/fkfanfic/deangelo_wanda/
and
V4S story
ftp://ftp.win.net/winnet/fkvoyage/fkfanfic/virtual_season/by_the_book.txt
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 22:40:45 EDT
From: WRDRR@a.......
Subject: Excerpt from book on Vampires on Film
Y'all,
Just saw a book entitled (maybe) Vampires on Film (that's close to the title
anyway. So I looked up FK. A whole paragraph. It said something to the
effect that Forever Knight was the best of the vamp offerings on T.V. They
said it was a great setup in which an errant knight's chivalrous nature comes
into direct conflict with his vampire nature on a nightly basis. On one hand
he is off to rescue the fair damsel nightly while at the same time wanting to
ravish the damsel himself. Pretty nice take on it all.
Casting T. F. Stone / Caddywhacked
read my FK book at ftp://ftp.win.net/winnet/fkvoyage/fkfanfic/deangelo_wanda/
and
V4S story
ftp://ftp.win.net/winnet/fkvoyage/fkfanfic/virtual_season/by_the_book.txt
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 23:15:02 EDT
From: Billie Lee <McCelt2000@a.......>
Subject: Re: Birthday?
In a message dated 4/21/01 2:33:10 AM !!!First Boot!!!, WRDRR@a....... writes:
> In a message dated 4/20/01 4:43:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> tigrlady2u@j....... writes:
>
> << >He's 44 today. He looks a lot younger than that! >>
Well, Happy Birthday GER!!!!
>
> Must be that Welsh blood. ;-) I'm 32 1/2 and I just got carded at TGIF
> <again>. It's those big chubby cheeks and blue eyes that do it every time.
> Kinda the Opie thingey workin' for ya. Vive la' Forever Opie
Hey, I will be 43 in June and I still occasionally get carded when I want to
buy wine for dinner or something (rare occasions, they are <g>) must be my
Irish blood <LOL>!!
And then there's the we-should-all-age-so-well Richard Gere and Richard Dean
Anderson!! Same goes for our GWD, eh?
Have a great night all!!
Forever Yours,
Billlie-Lee
mccelt2000@a.......
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 00:03:01 -0400
From: Brenda Bell <webwarren@e.......>
Subject: Re: Birthday?
At 10:32 PM 4/20/2001 -0400, CTFS wrote:
>Must be that Welsh blood. ;-) I'm 32 1/2 and I just got carded at TGIF
><again>. It's those big chubby cheeks and blue eyes that do it every time.
Actually, for the past couple of years Friday's has had a policy of carding
"everyone 40 or younger". I'm strongly considering ordering something
alcoholic on my next birthday (I'll be 41) to test this policy...
Brenda F. Bell webwarren@e....... /nick TMana IM: n2kye
Arctophile, computer addict, TREKker, stealth photographer...
UA, PoCBS, FKPagan; Neon-Green GlowWorm
HugMistress of the Ger Bear Project https://members.tripod.com/~TMana/
Gerthering 3 Photos: https://members.tripod.com/~TMana/gertherng/
Visit the Fiendish Glow at http://home.earthlink.net/~webwarren/glow/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 21:22:28 -0700
From: StormBorn <smolly4@q.......>
Subject: Re: Divia
Why did Divia save her father rather than her mother? I think the very fact
of Lucius' being absent so often made him seem glamorous to her. It's not
unheard of for girls entering adolescence to focus their budding sexuality
on the man they've always looked up to and seen (second-hand, through their
mother's eyes) as a romantic/sexual figure. Living with her mother and
seeing her on a regular basis, and being aware of her mother's profession,
she wouldn't think so much of her.
>>b) why does LaCroix react so badly? I can see shock, but why kill her? He
could have just left town. Or he could have just said no. Perhaps that was
too simple.<<
I think we can infer from FK (as in Nick's repeated assertions that he is
LC's slave) that a vampire 'master' has a great deal of power over his or
her fledgling. I doubt that LaCroix is a man who likes *anybody* to have
power over him, and he probably sensed that if he gave in to Divia that he
would be yielding up more power to her. Also, I doubt that Divia would have
accepted 'no, thanks,' as an answer.
>>I keep seeing references to Divia being raised in a brothel, being the
daughter of a prostitute or madam, etc etc. Have I missed something in the
series? I don't remember a specific reference that tells us it's a
brothel.<<
It's stated in the script, and also Selene is wearing the red toga of the
Roman prostitute.
David wrote:
>>The disdain of his (LC's) legit kids and the other members of the familia
would have been evident to her even at a young age...and thus would have
been the basis of her anger.<<
I don't think Lucius had other children (unusual at his age, I admit), but
if he did they probably would have never known of Divia's existence. She
was illegitimate and a female, so in effect she was worth nothing and
beneath notice; I doubt she would even be rumored about.
Molly/StormBorn
Cousin, Ravenette, Dark Trinity, Seducer, Forum Fanatic, FK Pagan
Abnormally fond of dead guys
smolly4@q....... or stormborn@l.......
http://stormborn.tripod.com/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 01:02:44 -0400
From: Brenda <bcammarata@h.......>
Subject: Re: Birthday?
>>Actually, for the past couple of years Friday's has had a policy of carding
>>"everyone 40 or younger".
The bar, where my son-in-law was the manager, cards everyone. The usual age
group is 18 to 35. I went in one evening and a new bouncer, who didn't know
me, carded me. I couldn't believe it. I was 54 at the time. Needless to
say, the people waiting to get in were rolling on the ground laughing at
this.
Carpe Noctem,
Brenda
UCCelebration 2000, Wolfville 2000
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 10:40:16 EDT
From: Marel Darby <Frostsaint2@a.......>
Subject: Re: Divia
smolly4@q....... writes:
> Living with her mother and
> seeing her on a regular basis, and being aware of her mother's profession,
> she wouldn't think so much of her.
There are any number of reasons why Divia might've despised/disliked her
mother, but would her profession be one of them? I'm not arguing, merely
seeking enlightenment. Since Roman society was less hypocritical about
sexual needs, would her mother's profession have been frowned on, or would
she be accorded respect as a successful businesswoman?
Also, there has been some mention that Divia would bitterly resent her
illegitimate status, but would the bastard child of a rich and influential
man have enjoyed more status than the legitimate child of a poorer one? There
are a number of examples in later periods where this is so. Even if Lucius
didn't acknowledge her legally, it must surely have been widely suspected.
Since he seemed an affectionate father, he would surely have offered a very
generous dowry to prospective suitors to compensate for her illegitimacy.
In which case, she could've expected to make a well-connected match.
Just wondering,
Marel
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 10:49:21 -0400
From: Emily Lacey <laceye@a.......>
Subject: Re: Birthday?
>At 10:32 PM 4/20/2001 -0400, CTFS wrote:
>
>>Must be that Welsh blood. ;-) I'm 32 1/2 and I just got carded at TGIF
>><again>. It's those big chubby cheeks and blue eyes that do it
>>every time.
...and at 47, why I just let my hair turn gray so I _won't_ keep
getting carded. Or dragged to the principal's office for being in the
hall without a pass when I need to stop at the high school...
--
Emily Lacey
laceye@a.......
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 10:56:16 -0400
From: Mickey <wench@a.......>
Subject: LCA 4!
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
The Motion Picture Industry Charitable Alliance® is pleased to announce
“Lights, Camera, Auction - Take 4!” October 19-21, 2001 in Toronto,
Ontario, Canada.
As in previous years, this celebrity charity auction of TV and movie
memorabilia will raise funds to benefit both a US and Canadian charity.
This years proceeds go to KYTES (Kensington Youth Theatre & Employment
Skills) which trains and educates homeless and disadvantaged youth and
Canine Companions for Independence, which trains service dogs for
physically handicapped individuals.
Auction items include scripts, wardrobe, crew jackets, shirts and caps,
videos, props and photos from such shows as Forever Knight, La Femme
Nikita, Earth: Final Conflict, Buffy: The Vampire Slayer, Angel, Xena:
Warrior Princess, Psi Factor, X-Files and many more. There will be a main
auction, a silent auction, a raffle, door prizes, Question & Answer panels
with production staff and other special events.
CONFIRMED GUESTS
All guest appearances are subject to professional commitments
Nigel Bennett "LaCroix/Prince" Forever Knight/ LEXX
Jon Cassar, Director Forever Knight / La Femme Nikita
Lindsay Collins “Torture Twin” La Femme Nikita
Matthew Ferguson "Birkoff" La Femme Nikita
Don Francks "Walter" La Femme Nikita
Nicholas Gray, Producer Forever Knight
Josh Holliday "Torture Twin" La Femme Nikita
Barclay Hope "Peter Axon" Psi Factor
Larry Lalonde, Producer Forever Knight/ Once A Thief
Kathryn Long “Divia” Forever Knight
Doug MacRae, Story Board Artist La Femme Nikita
Dean McDermott Due South/ La Femme Nikita
Geoff Murrin, Property Master, La Femme Nikita
Jim Murrin, Property Master, La Femme Nikita
Carlo Rota "Mick Schtoppel" La Femme Nikita
Patricia Zentilli "Bunny" LEXX
Malcolm Xerxes La Femme Nikita/ Witchblade
AND MORE TO COME!
Membership will be limited to 200 registrants and will be by mail in US
funds only. Registration details and the required registration form can be
found at the MPICA web site located at www.mpica.org or send a SASE to
request a registration form to:
Motion Picture Industry Charitable Alliance®
P.O. Box 1284
Springfield, Ohio 45501-1284
USA
Full weekend membership will cost US $50.00. The Saturday party is a
separate event that will require the purchase of a separate ticket for US
$25.00. MPICA reserves the right to refuse or revoke registration to any
individual for security reasons.
HOTEL INFORMATION
Room rate is CDN $109.00 per night for single or double occupancy and CDN
$119.00 per night for triple, and $129 for quadruple occupancy. When
calling ask for the special room rate for “Lights, Camera, Auction!”. Room
block will be held until September 18, 2001. We encourage you to make your
reservations ASAP due to heavy visitor traffic in the fall. The room rate
will be honored Thursday October 18 through Sunday October 21 subject to
room availability.
Days Hotel
6257 Airport Road
Mississauga, Ontario L4V 1E4
Canada
Tel. 905-678-1400 or 1-800 DAYS INN (1-800-329-7466)
For further information and updates, visit the MPICA web site
at www.mpica.org. MPICA looks forward to your attendance at this event and
in helping those less fortunate than ourselves!
In the spirit of good will,
Motion Picture Industry Charitable Alliance
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 08:14:40 -0700
From: "David J. Duncan" <dante0220@y.......>
Subject: Re: Divia (Long Post)
Hi Everyone:
Marel's right about illegitimate children
receiving good social matches, etc. However,
since Vesuvius blew its top, we'll never
know....Nice concept though.
After the discussions last night, I went back and
watched "Ashes to Ashes" again and I have yet
another (potentially troublesome) question. How
do you define a good father? Yes, LC is a good
father (although how good depends on your own
perceptions). Watching him with some of his
vampire children--he definitely has his favorites
and there are some who he ignores. Yes, Divia
was one of those favorite children, but does that
necessarily register in the child's eyes?
(**Remember, I'm not talking from societal, or
parental views, I'm talking from her view**).
Judging by Nick's reactions to LC, I would say
"it depends". Yes, he knows that LC loves him as
a son, but resents what the latter did/is doing
to him. If you watch Divia in "A to A" when she
enters the scene...she's knows that she is
unsettling to the Roman patricians and she's
enjoying that fact.
If you relate this back to Divia--just how often
did LC visit her and Selene? (To pick up on
Molly's point: yes, they were lower on the
ladder.) Was the scene at his villa just a
celebratory affair or a regular occurrence?
(Since I haven't seen the script, I don't
know....) If the former, I think the admiration
of the great Roman general would have wore off
pretty quickly on her. Despite the glamor, she
would have wanted her father around more often.
And of course, the debate is out there, did she
bring him across because she was a good daughter
or because she wanted to turn the tables and
control him?? (There are no illegitimate
vampires in the FK series as far as I know.)
And concerning Nick and Divia hashing things out:
I think you would need LC there to mediate. As
Daddy's favorite, Nick is the Number One target
on Divia's list (to make LC suffer). Anyone who
LC stops his work for (something he rarely did
for her as a mortal) would breed resentment from
her in any event. Makes you wonder what she
would have thought of Janette.... <g>
Oh well, I've stirred up enough waters for now.
(Divia's a character that I've given a lot of
thought to....)Thanks for listening everyone. :)
Much appreciated!
Sincerely,
David
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 09:45:52 -0700
From: Emily Hanson <emilymhanson@y.......>
Subject: Re: Divia (Long Post)
LC may have been a good father as a mortal, but remember this is a guy who can't
let an 800-year-old vampire go off on his own. Nick's not exactly a fledlging anymore,
but LC doesn't seem to get it.
OTOH, LC may be concerned about Enforcers coming after him because of Nick's
relationship with Nat,but we haven't seen too much evidence in canon that I can
think of to support this theory. And, IMHO, I really don't think it's in
Nick's best interest, for LC to say he'll take away the woman that Nick loves
most. If he really cared about Nicholas as a son, I don't think LC would
have made that deal.
(Ducking from the Nunkies and Cousins) <g>
--- "David J. Duncan" <dante0220@y.......> wrote:
How do you define a good father? Yes, LC is a good father (although how good
depends on your own perceptions.
=====
Emily Hanson
Main website - http://www.starbase-eprime.com
Web Graphics - http://www.galaxyofimages.com
ICQ# 73113057
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 11:39:41 -0700
From: StormBorn <smolly4@q.......>
Subject: Re: Divia
Marel raised some good questions (too long to quote here). Would Divia have
resented her illegitimate status? I think so; I think it's human nature to
seek acknowledgement, whether of our birth or our individuality. Would her
mother's profession be frowned upon? Well, while Romans certainly
patronized brothels, I don't think they had much respect for those who ran
or worked in them. Romans were more 'sexually liberated' than we in some
ways, but they were prudish in ways that seem laughable to us--for example,
it was shocking to make love in daylight or for a woman to take her bra off
while making love.
>>Since he seemed an affectionate father, he would surely have offered a very
generous dowry to prospective suitors to compensate for her illegitimacy.
In which case, she could've expected to make a well-connected match.<<
Oh, indeed--but would Divia have looked that far ahead? In any case, I
don't think she resented her father, or she wouldn't have brought him
across.
David added:
>>As Daddy's favorite, Nick is the Number One target on Divia's list (to
make LC suffer).<<
I think if Divia hadn't been killed by LaCroix, she wouldn't have let him
make *any* fledglings of his own, and if he'd made Nicholas against her
will, Nick's un-life would have been living hell. Don't think he would have
survived very long.
Emily H. added:
>>LC may have been a good father as a mortal, but remember this is a guy who
can't let an 800-year-old vampire go off on his own.<<
How easy is it for any of us to let go of those we love? And if vampiric
passions are deeper, stronger (just speculating), how much harder would it
be for LaCroix, especially when there were times when they were happy
together?
Molly/StormBorn
Cousin, Ravenette, Dark Trinity, Seducer, Forum Fanatic, FK Pagan
Abnormally fond of dead guys
smolly4@q....... or stormborn@l.......
http://stormborn.tripod.com/
------------------------------
End of FORKNI-L Digest - 20 Apr 2001 to 21 Apr 2001 (#2001-131)
***************************************************************
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