FORKNI-L Digest - 29 Oct 2000 to 30 Oct 2000 (#2000-335)
Mon, 30 Oct 2000
There are 12 messages totalling 494 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Knight School - Ep108 - Cherry Blossoms
2. Reese and The X Files?
3. Nat's guilt complex? (5)
4. background music.
5. A Moral LaCroix?
6. Admin: FORKNI-L Rules -- Please read rule 3
7. Unravelling Lacroix...
8. Have a great trip ! from DarkKnightie
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 23:07:35 -0000
From: Barbara Vainio <bevainio@w.......>
Subject: Re: Knight School - Ep108 - Cherry Blossoms
Ceily Trog wrote:
> There are several times early in the series that Nat actually encourages Nick
> to follow his heart.
I always thought that Nat was doing this to help nick become more "human"
but her expression and tone of voice showed that she really hoped he
wouldn't. Nat strikes me as a woman who hopes the people in her life will
validate her feelings without her having to tell them what they are. If she
encourages Nick to see other women but he doesn't, then she can hope that he
has some feelings for her.
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 23:00:22 -0500
From: Mary Lou Manzie <mmanzie1@m.......>
Subject: Reese and The X Files?
Okay, so we know that Captain Reese watches the X Files. I'll bet that many
of you Forever Knight fans do too, just like me!
Some of you may be aware that the series is now entering its eighth year.
There are many long-time fans who have become concerned about the direction of
the show this season, especially the main characters of Mulder and Scully, whose
relationship, like that of some of our own FK characters, is the reason many
of us continue to watch.
A group of X Files web site owners, fanfic writers and just plain fans have
gotten together to ask TPTB at the executive level of The X Files for
closure for the characters of Mulder and Scully by the end of season 8.
[There is the possibility that one character may not return or that the
entire series may end.] The campaign is called Protect Our Partnership. To
draw attention to the fans' request, these folks have partnered with Amnesty
International, a grassroots group helping prisoners of conscience worldwide.
They ask that fans of the series and the characters donate $8 ($1 per season
of The X Files) or multiples of $8 to Amnesty International, thus supporting
the show and the characters while creating a chance to help real people in
Their goal is to raise $24,000 (that would be $8 per fan and 3,000 fans)
which Amnesty International has agreed to track, then send a letter to Frank
Spotnitz, Executive Producer of 1013 Productions, detailing the group's
efforts for charity and requesting that the
Mulder/Scully relationship be retired with dignity for each character.
You can view the website which contains the address of Amnesty, draft of a
letter to Mr. Spotnitz, and an explanation of what the campaign is, as well
as what it is not, here: http://idealists.simplenet.com/ptp/index.html
This campaign has been organized and is being executed in only the most
positive of ways. There is no intent to disparage the producers, actors or
network for their respective business decisions; this is only a grassroots
fan effort to ask for dignity for characters we have grown to love.
Like so many of you, I am now and will always be proud of Forever Knight
fans and the charitable work we've been able to accomplish. The X Files, with
its larger audience and fan base, is simply able to reach more people. However,
I think it also has a responsibility to do as much as it can to help those
in need, and that is exactly why I am so happy to bring the Amnesty
International effort to your attention. Amy, the webmistress at the
terrific Haven site (who is spearheading this effort in a non-partisan way)
informed me today that already $2,000 has been pledged and this is only the
second day of the effort. Please join us in speaking back to TPTB with
conscience while helping a worthwhile charity at the same time.
Thanks for listening, and thanks to McLisa who gave her permission for this
post. You know, I'll bet Captain Reese would donate to this effort--I hope
you will consider it, too!
Mary Lou Manzie
"It's not that I'm slipping in my opinion of Fox Mulder. I've decided that
if my sister is going to work in the FBI, I would rather have him by her
side than about 90 percent of the guys I could name. He's laid down his
life for her, I appreciate that in a prick." Bill Scully in "By Her Side:
That Voice' by Vickie Moseley
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 20:56:58 -0800
From: Klytaimnestra <lbowman@c.......>
Subject: Nat's guilt complex?
on 10/29/00 2:00 PM, kyer wrote:
>> There are several times early in the series that Nat actually encourages
>> Nick to follow his heart.
> I always thought that that was her own guilt complex coming out. ...
I don't know, guilt complex? What has she to feel guilty about? I think
she's doing what someone with Nick's best interests at heart would do, and
encouraging him to try to form a good relationship with someone. Though I
agree that this doesn't mean she isn't interested in him herself; only that
she hasn't been given reason to believe he's interested in her.
And besides, if he manages to have a good, non-fatal relationship with any
mortal woman, maybe she'll turn out to be next on his list ...
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 01:11:44 -0500
From: Luc D <lacroix@e.......>
Subject: background music.
Does anyone know the song that was played on the background of the
Raven, during "Dark Knight" when Nick visits Jeannett?
And on the side, if anyone knows a page where I could find songs from
movie/tv commercials, that be cool too.
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:01:34 -0500
From: Portia 1 <portia1@m.......>
Subject: Re: A Moral LaCroix?
>Suppose...LC's *mother* had taken an incestuous interest in her son? To
>then have Divia, his "mother", want to have a sexual relationship with him
>would throw him back to the memories of his relationship with his real
This is very interesting! In my construct of LaCroix' history, I imagine
his father as brutal and autocratic and his mother as completely morally
degenerate and sexually abusive, some of which construct was prompted by
his interactions with Divia.....
>Suppose LC...had actually wanted to have a sexual relationship with Divia but
>viewed it as an evil in himself. To have Divia desire him would then have seemed
>to have been the evil in him passed down to her. He does make a point of saying
>she inherited his evil.
This also seems likely -- very perceptive! I wondered if the evil he
perceived in Divia was only something prompted by her vampiric self or if
he perceived it before she was brought across. And (I add this only for the
sake of theorizing) abusers often "blame" their victims for "inspiring"
their interest -- "she always wore those clothes around me," "he kept
walking in that certain way to entice me," etc. So if this theory applies,
he might have blaimed Divia for his own response....
Sandra, you've given me some things to think about -- all four of your
theories are intriquing.
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:10:11 -0500
From: mclisa <mclisa@m.......>
Subject: Admin: FORKNI-L Rules -- Please read rule 3
Here are the Forkni-l rules. Yes, it's Monday again. :)
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help page at: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7139/fk-lists.htm
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Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:51:22 EST
From: Marel Darby <Frostsaint2@a.......>
Subject: Unravelling Lacroix...
The onscreen LaCroix was inscrutable, complex, gloriously unknowable.
I can think of only three episodes out of about seventy in which some
background information was offered, and, imo, it was all the better
that he remained mysterious. Am I in a minority to find that well-worn
attempts to explain his personality merely reduce him to the
commonplace and turn him into a screwed-up victim who could be
straightened out with therapy? (If the therapist didn't end up as brunch.)
Although if someone came up with something startling and fresh,
I might have to eat my words. <g>
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:35:10 EST
From: Enid Rodriguez <LadyEnid512@a.......>
Subject: Re: Nat's guilt complex?
> I don't know, guilt complex? What has she to feel guilty about?
Well, Natalie did tell Nick that helping Nick find his cure was it's own
reward when he asked her if she expected anything in return. We know that
this wasn't the case anymore after a few years of friendship and Nat began to
hope it could become more. Maybe there could be some guilt about that, she
could have felt like a hypocrite. As I recall, the character of Nat looked
down on other doctors who became "involved" with their patients.
Or maybe she encouraged Nick to go for romantic relationships with mortals
as a form of reverse psychology. For example, when you tell your friends not
to go crazy for you birthday in the hopes they will give you a parade. <g>
Or when you tell your friend it's ok if she dates you ex-boyfriend, but when
she does, you are livid because you didn't expect her to out of respect for your
Maybe Nat just wanted it to seem that she was being supportive, so Nick
could accuse her of being selfish, or like Lacroix?
All this of course is IMO and mostly my speculation.
-Lady Enid (Enid Rodriguez)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:39:02 EST
From: Enid Rodriguez <LadyEnid512@a.......>
Subject: Re: Nat's guilt complex?
In a message dated 10/30/00 12:37:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> Maybe Nat just wanted it to seem that she was being supportive, so Nick
> could accuse her of being selfish, or like Lacroix?
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:19:11 -0500
Subject: Have a great trip ! from DarkKnightie
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Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:38:17 -0700
From: Kyer <kyer@p.......>
Subject: Re: Nat's guilt complex?
> I don't know, guilt complex? What has she to feel guilty about? I think
> she's doing what someone with Nick's best interests at heart would do, and
> encouraging him to try to form a good relationship with someone
I meant that she might feel a little guilty about wanting to haul his bod into
somewheres private, even though he didn't appear to feel the same way. :)
> And besides, if he manages to have a good, non-fatal relationship with any
> mortal woman, maybe she'll turn out to be next on his list ...
Lol! This reminds me of that saying: "Dad always warned me to wait and see
if anyone else ever died of first, before trying something new." As in:
Natalie Lambert (of the Dark Side): Ooo...looks like Susy from Accounting
didn't survive. Guess I'll change the protein drink and wait and see how
Andrea from Personnel fares. Let'see...I think I can sweet talk Nancy from
Vice to date Nick on Friday if dear Andrea ends up feeling overly
dehydrated... <mumble> It's a good thing there are a lot of women (guinea
pigs) in this precinct."
Kyer (also feeling a tad in league with the Dark Side just now. Hehehehe)
The UnRepentant Gnat Swatter because somebody's gotta do it! <eg>
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 15:35:00 EST
Subject: Re: Nat's guilt complex?
In a message dated Sun, 29 Oct 2000 11:56:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Klytaimnestra <lbowman@c.......> writes:
<<I don't know, guilt complex? What has she to feel guilty about?>>
The fact wot she's cheatin' h'on the De-fect-a-tive Nick wit' 'er h'un true
luv-'er, 'er soul-mate, 'er 'uney buns Screedypoo.
Ya kin jest see h'it h'in their h'eyes h'in tha' on-screen FEVER moment when
Natsie-Ratsie must ad-vert-tize 'er h'eyes wot ta keep from burstin' h'inta
h'a bawl game h'in front o' Nick.
she's doing what someone with Nick's best interests at heart would do,>>
Maybe so, seein' 'ow 'e could never live h'up ta Screed's h'im-age 'az a REAL
vampy-type o' droog.
she hasn't been given reason to believe he's interested in her.>>
H'an' tha' Screeds so much more... skilled wit' them fiesty wench types.
(Didja REALLY ex-pect-tor-ate me ta be'ave wit' a thread loik this?)
End of FORKNI-L Digest - 29 Oct 2000 to 30 Oct 2000 (#2000-335)
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