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FORKNI-L Digest - 1 Aug 2000 to 2 Aug 2000 - Special issue (#2000-233)

Wed, 2 Aug 2000

Wed, 2 Aug 2000

There are 27 messages totalling 1034 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. Updated KtK Address list for August
  2. Nick Knight: Too 'sanitized' for TV?  Can't we all use a bath? (2)
  3. YKYBRTMFW
  4. I'm embarrassed to be a FK fan (2)
  5. UV Bboard addy? (2)
  6. missing story parts (3)
  7. Here is UV addy.
  8. Green Eggs and Ham (was Re: Seems like Old Times)
  9. I'm embarassed...
 10. Old Listee's home and dinos (2)
 11. The Elder Stateskitty Speaks... (3)
 12. WHOA! (re: I'm embarrassed to be a FK fan)
 13. YKYBWTMFK
 14. I'm embarrassed... (2)
 15. Admin: Archives!--at last
 16. A Nat Question
 17. Feedback (was: I'm embarrassed...)
 18. fanfic flames (was I'm embarrassed...)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 1 Aug 2000 17:02:17 EDT
From:    SField8067@a.......
Subject: Updated KtK Address list for August

This is  posted with permission from Lisa and Don. :)
Thanks to you both !

This is the most up to date list.please disregard earlier address lists you
might have.
permission to post this to any list.
............................................................................

....................................
Write for the Knight! (this section is for snail mail writers! (VERY
important to keep doing!)

Let’s redouble our efforts and really let "The Powers That Be" know that we
want more Forever Knight!
Do not be discouraged just because its not shown now!! schedules change on
Sci-Fi all the time.And despite the negative e-mails concerning UV vs FK etc,
we did actually find out that FK is under consideration for a return! please
dont stop any of this, thinking our chances have been spoiled, they certainly
have not!
The main idea is to be honest. Tell them your age,
where you live, how long you've been watching Forever Knight and how much
you'd like to see it back on TV. Do not, however, put anything on the
envelope that might indicate you are a FK fan or are writing about the show.
These letters are often considered "fannish" and you run the risk of being
ignored.Be business-like...explain why you're writing and why you think it
will be profitable to have the show back in production. Tell them what kind
of Forever Knight merchandise you have bought, and what you would like to
buy. BUT TELL THEM YOU WANT MORE FOREVER KNIGHT!

For more FK :

Edgar Bronfman Jr.
CEO & President
The Seagram Co. Ltd.
375 Park Avenue
New York, NY 10152-0192
********************************************8
Stephen Chao ***** (VERY IMPORTANT #)*****
USA Networks
2049 Century Park E, Ste. 2550
Los Angeles, CA 90067
****************************************************
Bonnie Hammer**** (VERY IMPORTANT #)*****
Executive Vice President and General Manager of the Sci-Fi Channel
Sci Fi Channel
1230 Avenue of the Americas
New York, NY 10020
**********************************
Mel Harris***** (VERY IMPORTANT#)******
Chief Operating Officer-Television
Sony Pictures Entertainment
10202 W. Washington Blvd.
Culver City,CA 90
**********************************
(Alot of Forever Knight fans have requested that we try asking another
network about FK, to see if there might be an interest, and so, we have
decided to test the waters...
This month we are adding TNT to the list of Addresses to write to.
Here are the #'s to use.........

tnt@t.......
(and place in the subject line: "To The Attention Of The Vice-President of
Programming")

You also may call TNT's Viewer Comment and Question Line at (404) 885-4538,
however we ask that any phone calls be in addition to letters and e-mails.
For snail mail, send to:
Vice-President of Programming
TNT
1010 Techwood Drive, NW
Atlanta, GA 30318


For more FK merchandise:

Marci Gordon
Sony Product Development
TriStar Building, 3rd Fl.
10102 W. Washington Blvd.
Culver City, CA 90232

800-Trekker
P.O. Box 13131
Reading, PA 19612-3131

For more FK books:

Grace Ressler
Publishing Manager
Sony Signatures
TriStar Building, 3rd Fl.
10202 W. Washington Blvd.
Culver City, CA 90232

Boulevard Books
The Berkley Publishing Group
200 Madison Avenue
New York, NY 10016

For FK on video:

Columbia House Video Library
1400 Fruitridge Avenue
Terre Haute, IN 47811

For fans in the U.K.:

Customer Relations Department
British Sky Broadcasting PLC
Subscriber Management Centre
P.O. Box 43
Livingston
West Lothion
EH54 7DD
SCOTLAND

The Sci Fi Channel
77 Charlotte Street
London
W1P 2DD
ENGLAND


..............................................................................
PROJECTS  AND WHATS NEW UPDATE:
The Fangs project is going along really well, and the e-mails i have received
for it are wonderful as always!! thanks so much to those that have already
sent something in, and we hope that those that haven't sent in anything yet,
will do so :)
We have been informed that in the September 1st issue of "Pathway to
Darkness' site online, an article on the KtK cause along with its FAQ will be
printed.We hope you will all enjoy it. http://www.pathwaytodarkness.com/

Now another project we have had going for the past few months have been our
*Blitz's* and so throughout this entire month of August, we are asking
everyone to e-mail not only Sci-fi and TriStar, but TNT as well.
You can re-use the e-mails you did before, or write new ones, they can be
long, or as short as just saying "Bring Back Forever Knight ".
feedback@w....... (Sci-fi channel)

For e-mail to TNT : tnt@t.......
Send them to the attention of the Vice-President of Programming

Sony/Tristar: /http://www.spe.sony.com/spe/help_feedback_index.html

REMEMBER!! Sci-Fi changes its schedule every few months, perhaps if we try
really hard we can indeed have it back before the holidays!
and wouldn't we all love to have that as a X-mas gift?
...................................................................
Kickstart the Knight is planning on another Auction very soon,most likely the
early part of September. We originally had it scheduled for August, but due
to the response from fans offerring items to KtK, we actually need more
time!! :) but it does promise to be one of the best auctions ever! and
please, if any of you have anything FK that you would like to contribute to
help us raise the money needed to place a new Ad, please contact :
SField8067@a.......
***********************************************************************
 A monthly petition, is online.
  (KTK)  sends  these in to important powers such as Bonnie Hammer and
Stephen Chao, and Mel Harris at Tristar. If you have already signed, then
just spread the word to others who have not. Also, if you have a FK page
please feel free to help by posting the new banner I made on your pages.

For more info on many projects  plus banners to help the cause,check out this
website:
http://members.xoom.com/forever_nick/Forever_Knight
..............................................................................
Please vote for Forever Knight  the Global 100
Charts!! We do know that TPTB are looking at them online, and they are also
sent snail-mail to TPTB, that includes Sci-fi and Columbia Tristar.If you
love this show,please
  vote  for it on this all important chart!
remember you can go back to renew your votes.they are tabulated once a month
. Try to strive to be a High
Level voter too (can vote up to 30 points).
Keep it up and our beloved Knight will be #1!!
Voting Address: http://www.global100.com/item.asp?Item=51259
..............................................................................
................................................

There is another way to show TPTB how much you would like the FK
returned....

Thought Up By wonderful devoted fans such as yourselves.....

It's called "Operation Postcard Overload" as was told to KtK, "When
we all send letters to Sci-Fi/USA, we get postcards back, so why not send
postcards to them?" Its easy! Postcards are everyplace! How about postcards
representing the places you live? England, Austrailia, Germany, USA, all the
different states......
FK fans are all over the globe! Lets show TPTB that the World wants it
back!!!

Send the cards to:
Bonnie Hammer and Stephen Chao (addresses above)
..............................................................................

http://www.ktk.op.nu  (the official Kickstart The Knight Website)
This is where to go for all the latest happenings in the world of
FK! updated as often as possible.
..............................................................................
...........................................
One way to get some attention is to hit
the Sci-fi Channel  Bboard with posts about how much we want FK back with new
eps or movies AND how much we want it back on the schedule! We can post new
messages, even sign a post there like we did with post 1000. One note however
is that new posts are
saved alphabetically on that board so a new original post to the board will
not appear exactly at the bottom of the last page
PLEASE EVERYONE SIGN! And also spread the word to other lists or newsgroups,
just let everyone know! The Knight must continue, along with NEW episodes!!
a brand new post has started a couple of weeks ago, by Kristin,(our newest
Ktk member.)Please take some time while online to go
over and write a little message ,every one of you count!!! ask for the return
of Forever Knight.  We ALL would like to see it back wouldn't we?

 The NEW post can be found here:
http://www.scifi.com/bboard/browse.cgi/1/5/1686

Please add your name and letters, and also help to spread the word about
this.
..............................................................................
And for anyone that is would like to make phone calls........
(212)-408-9100-for Sci Fi
(212) -413-5000-programming dept.
(note these are New York #'s......)
..............................................................................
....................................................................
I think i have covered all the important #'s. if anyone knows more to add
that you feel would be important, please send them to me at:
SField8067@a.......

And dont forget that KtK has a newsletter"The Crusader" we all try very hard
to make this the most complete one stop shop of FK news, updates on the
stars, etc..
We also very much like to include those of you online in each issue.If you
have articles, puzzles, poems, short storys, etc. please contact me at:
SField8067@a.......
our newest issue is being worked on now, still time for anyone to get stuff
in!
If you would like to subscribe for free online e-mail; knightwave@a.......
it will automatically be sent to via e-mail :)
off line ordering info and back issues that you can read can be found on the
official Ktk website.
.............................................................................
KtK has many many new ideas and projects  planned... we are far from
stopping,hang in there with us guys!!! we all might run into rough spots
along the way, things happen online and off that sometimes help, sometimes
hurt, but I promise, as long as you all stick with the cause, I, along with
the rest of KtK, will never stop working on your behalf to bring back the
Knight!
Together, we can bring  back FK!

All the best,
Susan Ellen Field
Kickstart The Knight
SField8067@a.......
(A quitter never wins, and a winner never quits!)

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 1 Aug 2000 17:14:26 -0400
From:    urtikit@m.......
Subject: Re: Nick Knight: Too 'sanitized' for TV?  Can't we all use a bath?

Liz wrote:
>He's supposedly enjoyed himself for six to seven hundred
>years. A fairly huge percentage. But the flashbacks we get of him doing so
>don't comprise of anywhere near that amount.

Was it that long?  I usually figure it to be a bit less.
Specifically, we know he had doubts that first week
(cf. DK & C&C).  But after that, he seems to throw himself
into the role for the next 200 years.  Then comes Joan (FIHS), and
the doubts seem to bubble up again.  Now, we start
hearing/seeing more and more of his disquiet.  (His disgust
with LC's kills in DA & TG, for example, happen immediately
in the next few FBs.)
Another century, and he's making a vow to kill only the guilty (LYTD).
Three centuries after that, he won't kill at all (LYTD),
and has been actively seeking a cure.
(Does that add up correctly?  I hope I got the math right.<G>)
Anyway, by my tally, that's 200 years of enjoying himself (or at least, not
showing or proclaiming angst).
Which works out to be, percentage-wise, only a smidge over a
quarter of his unlife.

Calculater always at the ready,
Kit
urtikit@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 Aug 1999 18:12:57 -0400
From:    g4akl@c.......
Subject: YKYBRTMFW

When you overhear two people discussing a computer game (Diablo?)
and one asks the other about a final game level with cows wearing
armour.

And you wonder if the armour is to foil Nick, and then if the
game's authors are FK fans.  :)

Arletta

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 1 Aug 2000 17:13:17 -0500
From:    treeleaf@i.......
Subject: Re: I'm embarrassed to be a FK fan

At 12:53 PM 8/1/00 -0400, mclisa@m....... wrote:

>My suggestion would be that some of us get on those boards and maybe
>SciFi and apologize for the behavior of the rude FK fans. It couldn't
>hurt and might help.

This is an excellent idea. A long while back, I was upset over a situation
with someone from a faction different from my own. It meant a lot to me to
get an email from someone else in that same faction, with a completely
different attitude.


Bring 'em back alive!
Margie (treeleaf@i.......)
Cousin of the Knight ~ N&NPacker
CotK site -- http://lavender.fortunecity.com/evildead/879/
Kickstart the Knight!: http://jessica.simplenet.com/ktk

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 2 Aug 2000 10:13:41 +1200
From:    Knightraven <knightraven@c.......>
Subject: Re: I'm embarrassed to be a FK fan

Ok. At the risk of sounding like your mother...<g> I think it would be in
our own best interests for, not only those who have seemingly offended the
UV fans, but a few of us more thoughtful fans, to go to the UVBB and post a
few apologies. Make nice. Show TPTB and the UV fans, that we are not all
horrid little people.
Make the UVer's feel welcome...we are, after all, Cousins in our love of the
creatures of the night. So...feel free to hug a UVer.<eg> Hand them those
virtual flowers...make peace not war...stand up and show the world that NOT
ALL FK FANS ARE ASS$#^@*!! In fact most of them are pretty darn nice!!<G>

Kylie.
knightraven@c.......  ICQ# 79163147,  AOL & Yahoo - Knightravenz
http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/knightraven
FK Merchandise available here! T-shirts, Hats etc!

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 1 Aug 2000 18:33:59 EDT
From:    LizTheLuck@a.......
Subject: Re: Nick Knight: Too 'sanitized' for TV?  Can't we all use a bath?

Since I'm apparently persona non grata to the listserv, maybe I can get
through this way.

Kit corrected me with:
> Was it that long?  I usually figure it to be a bit less.

Depends on how you see it. I've always thought Nick went back and forth
between liking the vampire and hating it. Right now he's in a hating it
mood, but who knows what he's going to think of it 50-60 years from now.

But of course, I have **** for brains and don't know what I'm saying.

Hugs and Kisses,
Liz the Lucky                                               FoD
luckyliz@m.......                                     Merc
http://www.mindspring.com/~luckyliz                         Nothers

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 2 Aug 2000 10:38:10 +1200
From:    Knightraven <knightraven@c.......>
Subject: UV Bboard addy?

Does anyone have the UV addy? I am lost in Scifi.com.<g> Many thanks.

knightraven@c.......  ICQ# 79163147,  AOL & Yahoo - Knightravenz
http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/knightraven
FK Merchandise available here! T-shirts, Hats etc!

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 2 Aug 1999 18:41:17 -0400
From:    g4akl@c.......
Subject: missing story parts

I just discovered that I'm missing parts 22 thru 24
of  "Xover: Children of the Night".  Could someone send
them to me.

Thanks in advance.
Arletta

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 1 Aug 2000 18:52:21 -0400
From:    Emily Hanson <hansone@t.......>
Subject: Re: UV Bboard addy?

I'd like this, too.

Signed up for the message board, had a few problems with e-mail addresses
but it finally took my hansone@t....... address.  Apparently scifi is
blocking some web-based e-mail addresses, but not all.  The web-based e-mail
at www.mail.com works for me.

Emily
------Original Message------
From: Knightraven <knightraven@c.......>
To: FORKNI-L@l.......
Sent: August 1, 2000 10:38:10 PM GMT
Subject: [FORKNI-L] UV Bboard addy?


Does anyone have the UV addy? I am lost in Scifi.com.<g> Many thanks.

knightraven@c.......  ICQ# 79163147,  AOL & Yahoo - Knightravenz
http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/knightraven
FK Merchandise available here! T-shirts, Hats etc!

Emily M. Hanson
http://www.starbase-eprime.com

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 2 Aug 2000 10:57:19 +1200
From:    Knightraven <knightraven@c.......>
Subject: Here is UV addy.

Here is the UV addy!
Thanks, Bons!<g>

http://www.scifi.com/bboard/browse.cgi/1/5/1910


Kylie.
knightraven@c.......  ICQ# 79163147,  AOL & Yahoo - Knightravenz
http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/knightraven
FK Merchandise available here! T-shirts, Hats etc!

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 1 Aug 2000 19:10:05 EDT
From:    Ceily Trog <Fk4ever1228@a.......>
Subject: Re: Green Eggs and Ham (was Re: Seems like Old Times)

In a message dated 7/31/00 2:06:45 PM Central Daylight Time,
Laudon1965@a....... writes:

<< Nigel in LC's "dragon's breath voice" intoning "Would you, could you, with
a goat?" <weg> >>

And JK's ways of saying: "Schanke...I am."  (different each time!!)

fk4ever
waving to gwennmusic for sending her a copy ;-)

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 1 Aug 2000 19:18:37 -0400
From:    Kathy Whelton <KWhelton@c.......>
Subject: Re: I'm embarassed...

Lorelei writes:
> deleted them, or I would post them here.  I mean, if you don't like a
>story, there is a delete key.  No response is a response.  It truly is not
>necessary to write to an author EVER and list what you disliked about her
>writing skills, story line, character developments... We write for fun, not
>profit.

I'm sorry if you've received some hurtful emails, but please
do not presume to speak for me or any other writer on
this list. I like to know if a storyline is a hit or a miss, or
if I'm wandering too far off on a characterization.  If I hear
from too many folks, it may make me re-examine what
I'm doing...or maybe not. <G>

If you're only interested in positive feedback, perhaps
you should state that in your disclaimers, but please
don't curtail the constructive criticism for those of us
who appreciate it.

On the topic of UV, I do agree that the comments posted
on the UV BB were very inappropriate, but I think it can
be attributed to youthful enthusiasm and a lack of
foresight. An apology has been posted. Perhaps enough
has been said.

Cheers,
  Kathy
  KWhelton@c.......

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 1 Aug 2000 20:05:19 -0400
From:    "Susan M. Garrett" <susang@v.......>
Subject: Re: Old Listee's home and dinos

I subbed the first week of September, 1994.

You know you're a candidate for the old listee's home when you remember:

* A time before there were six affiliations

* LaCroix's return was not WHEN but IF

* The popcorn scene was discussed for the first time

* Damn near everything was discussed for the first time

* A short story about a Christmas card began a war

* The first fiction challenge

* The first fiction song challenge

* The first time Nigel posted to the list and scared the pookies out of us

It's been a good life.

Regards

susang@v.......  -- http://www.vitinc.com/~susang
EVER Faithful Ravenette. http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/2167/fiction.htm
"Friends help you move.  Real friends help you move bodies."

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 1 Aug 2000 21:35:06 -0400
From:    phoenix@s.......
Subject: The Elder Stateskitty Speaks...

> Signs you may be ready for the old listee's home:

> * You lost your car in War 1

        -- You were the one who blew up an assistant listowner's car
        in War 1. ;)

> If you remember when FORKNI-L had about 20 regular posters and there was
> no need for a spoiler or a fic list.  Or a digest.

        -- If you, as listowner, compiled the digest manually.

> If you remember when Jaye and Laurie Salopek were listowners.

        -- If you /are/ Jaye or Laurie Salopek.  Oh, wait, /I'm/ Jaye.
        So you couldn't be Jaye.  Must be getting old.  Forgetting who I
        am now. :)

Someone did ask about when the list was founded, and McLisa got the right
month and year.  However, for reference, the Founding Date of our
7+-year-old list is December 9th, 1992.  If you would like more details,
they were published in Forever Net #1.  Or else I could dig through my old
Penn State files and see if I have it there.

If you'd asked me in 92 or early 93 if FORKNI-L would be around in the
year 2000, I woulda laughed.  I'm pleased it's surviving the test of time.
However, be nice to McLisa.  She does a wonderful job with my baby, and I
hope we're still around for another 8 years or more. :)

Cheers!
Jaye,
Elder Stateskitty

****
________   _   ________
 \___   \_~ |_/   ___/          The Phoenix
   \___         ___/            Jean Prior
     \____   ____/              Aka The Jayekitty
         /   \                  Harbinger of all things weird,
         \   /                  Where normality is simply illegal,
          ~~~                   The Jayezilla cometh.  Raaaaarrr!!

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 1 Aug 2000 21:44:21 EDT
From:    Libratsie@a.......
Subject: Re: The Elder Stateskitty Speaks...

In a message dated 8/1/00 8:35:51 PM Central Daylight Time,
phoenix@s....... writes:

> If you'd asked me in 92 or early 93 if FORKNI-L would be around in the
>  year 2000, I woulda laughed.
Yeah, but wot would ya have done if someone 'ad told you'd there'd be a
cockney vampire wot drank the ratsie-vino intro-de-duced h'in the 3rd season
spawnin' a faction o' Ratpackers????

Hmmm???

I kin 'ear the screams o' "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" roight now. hehehehe

 I'm pleased it's surviving the test of time.
>  However, be nice to McLisa.  She does a wonderful job with my baby, and I
>  hope we're still around for another 8 years or more. :)
McLisa IS a peach o' the sweetest kind (after she has her daily coffee, of
course). And let's not stop at 8 years - let's go for.... FOREVER! hehehehehe.

--Libs

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 1 Aug 2000 22:31:51 EDT
From:    DarkPNinja@a.......
Subject: Re: WHOA! (re: I'm embarrassed to be a FK fan)

In a message dated 08/01/2000 12:53:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Libratsie@a....... writes:

<< And would someone please offer me some cheese, it is getting chilly under
this rock!<wRPg> >>

:)  Come on out kiddo - I've got Velveeta!

Hugs,
Ren

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 1 Aug 2000 22:48:30 -0400
From:    Mary Combs <mcombs@e.......>
Subject: YKYBWTMFK

When you are prowling around the Internet Movie Database doing searches
on some FK actors and the search on Nigel's name also turns up:

John Cleese (aka Nigel Farquhar-Bennett)

and your feeble brain swirls with images of LaCroix forced to hole up at
Fawlty Towers....refusing to accept the return of a dead parrot....
visiting the Department of Silly Walks.....

-----
Mary
mcombs@e....... N&Npacker

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 1 Aug 2000 22:53:35 -0400
From:    Emily Lacey <laceye@a.......>
Subject: Re: missing story parts

>I just discovered that I'm missing parts 22 thru 24
>of  "Xover: Children of the Night".  Could someone send

I've got the story, but you'll have to give me some idea of where parts
22-24 are. I take out the "parts" when I archive them on my drive...unless
you want the whole thing again.

Emily Lacey
laceye@a.......

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 1 Aug 2000 20:54:50 -0700
From:    Les GS <looscann@s.......>
Subject: Re: I'm embarrassed...

Kathy wrote:
>please do not presume to speak for me or any other writer on this list.
>I like to know if a storyline is a hit or a miss, or if I'm wandering
>too far off on a characterization.  If I hear from too many folks, it
>may make me re-examine what I'm doing...or maybe not. <G>

Yup, I'm with Kathy.  I know comments finding fault with one's fiction can
be quite painful (see, I gotta scar here and here and here... <g>), but
constructive criticism is imperative to honing one's skills as a writer.
No, flames do not count as "constructive criticism" and should be flushed
as the debris they are.  And when someone's words are painful, it might
take a while to get over the blow to one's ego and process them
constructively.  But "painful" does not necessarily equal "flame."

Plus, someone may very well honestly and intelligently disagree with a
writer's interpretation of the characters and canonical events.  We see
that sort of disagreement regularly on this list.  This is not a Bad Thing.
<g> So long as that disagreement is phrased politely (as one hopes it is on
this list), one should be open to entertaining others' opinions.  And one
can respond to that disagreement by replying, "Yes, I see your point, but
my position is supported by such and such."  Having to really think through
one's interpretations of these characters can only give one's fiction a
greater veracity.  I, for one, find Kathy's characterization extremely true
and I can only assume her willingness to work with real criticism is
partially responsible for that.

Anyhoo...

Les
 Unnamed
  LoosCanN@s.......  ~ http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/looscann/ ~
UF UnFAQ - http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/1228/
     "The truth is rarely pure, and never simple." ~ Oscar Wilde

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 2 Aug 2000 00:06:56 +0600
From:    Don Fasig <phase3@g.......>
Subject: Re: missing story parts

On 2 Aug 99,  g4akl@c....... wrote:
> I just discovered that I'm missing parts 22 thru 24
> of  "Xover: Children of the Night".  Could someone send
> them to me.

I've forwarded these to Arletta.  I usually have several weeks of FKFIC-L
still on my hard drive in case anyone needs something.

Don Fasig
Argent@e.......

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 2 Aug 2000 00:25:46 +0600
From:    Don Fasig <phase3@g.......>
Subject: Admin: Archives!--at last

Forwarded on behalf of "Nancy Braman" <knightwind68@h.......>.

Don Fasig, FK List Gardener
Argent@e.......    ---,-<@
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7139/fkgarden.htm - FK Page
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7139/fk-lists.htm - Subscription Help

------- Forwarded message follows -------
From:                   "Nancy Braman" <knightwind68@h.......>
To:                     mclisa@m......., Argent@e.......
Subject:                Archives!--at last
Date sent:              Fri, 28 Jul 2000 14:22:43 GMT

The Forkni-L Archives are now up and running (at least they were when I
tested things a few minutes ago!).  The URL is:

http://members.theglobe.com/KnightWind3/default.html

or you can go straight to the archives main page:

http://members.theglobe.com/KnightWind3/forkni.htm

I'll try to keep things reasonably up to date, but it might be a problem for
the first week or so in August, since my computer room is also the spare
bedroom, which will be occupied by my nephew for a week and a half.

Has anyone ever ovedosed on HTML? :-)

Nancy

Nancy Braman knightwind68@h....... knightwind3@t.......
http://members.theglobe.com/KnightWind3/default.html
"What time is it...what day is it...what century is it?"
   --Nick (Forever Knight)
"Good morning" is an oxymoron. -- Me

------- End of forwarded message -------

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Date:    Tue, 1 Aug 2000 23:32:13 -0500
From:    "Nancy E. Kaminski" <nancykam@m.......>
Subject: Re: I'm embarrassed...

> Les GS wrote in response to Kathy Whelton's post:

> Yup, I'm with Kathy.  I know comments finding fault with
> one's fiction can be quite painful (see, I gotta scar here and here and here...
> <g>), but constructive criticism is imperative to honing one's skills
> as a writer.

I would like to chime in to agree with Les and Kathy on this. There is nothing
scarier than offering up one of your works for criticism. I write for a living,
and every year I submit a couple of my technical manuals to be politely ripped
to shreds by an anonymous group of fellow technical writers who are also members
of my professional association. The first year I did this, I could barely stand
to read the detailed comment sheets. I was criticized on content, grammar,
organization, clarity, format, presentation -- the works.

After I got over the shock, though, I took a deep breath and tried to learn from
the comments. The people who were judging my work were vastly more experienced
than I, and could view my manuals with a cold, objective eye. Heck, what they
said *made sense.* When I took their comments to heart, I found that my users
gave me more positive feedback on the next book, and -- miracle of miracles -- I
won an award in the next year's competition. I owe it all to those scary review
sheets.

I honestly think if you're serious about improving your writing, whatever kind
it is, you have to listen to people who offer constructive criticism. I welcome
it myself. I write FK fanfic for fun, but I also do it to sharpen my writing
skills, and it's great to know what doesn't ring true to my audience.

So thanks, all of you who have written those lovely, detailed comments on my
stories. Some of it may hurt, but it always helps!

Nancy Kaminski
nancykam@m.......

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Date:    Tue, 1 Aug 2000 08:11:42 -0700
From:    tigrlady2u@j.......
Subject: Re: A Nat Question

 I would think it would be M.E., wouldn't it?  Since she's a Medical
Examiner?

KC Smith
tigrlady2u@j.......
Nick/Natpacker with Dark Knightie tendencies.
"I've never met a chocolate I didn't like."

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Date:    Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:58:12 +1200
From:    Knightraven <knightraven@c.......>
Subject: Re: The Elder Stateskitty Speaks...

Okay...I ahve to know! What sort of things did Nigel say when he was on the
list?
How did he scare the pookie?!<g>

Cheers,
Kylie.
knightraven@c.......  ICQ# 79163147,  AOL & Yahoo - Knightravenz
http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/knightraven
FK Merchandise available here! T-shirts, Hats etc!

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 2 Aug 2000 01:43:48 EDT
From:    Laudon1965@a.......
Subject: Re: Old Listee's home and dinos

In a message dated 07/31/2000 6:44:23 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
Libratsie@a....... writes:

<< ** You remember when Nigel was still subbed to FORKNI-L and would VERY
 occasionally post >>

Does anybody have these saved, by any chance?

Laurie of the Isles
"Narf!" -- Pinky

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Date:    Wed, 2 Aug 2000 05:50:48 GMT
From:    dharris@h.......
Subject: Feedback (was: I'm embarrassed...)

> I would like to chime in to agree with Les and Kathy on this.

I would as well.  I've come to value constructive criticism even more than
glowing, positive comments (although those definitely do give me a really nice
high, what can I say, I'm a feedback glutton!).  I really like hearing what
people disagree with, either so I can argue my point back to them, or so that I
can ammend my own oppinion.

In fact, I've got a story that I'm finishing up that I changed a lot of stuff
for based on other people's comments about my characterizations, as well as a
lot of plot suggestions, like "I think Nat should do this..." or "I don't think
Nick doing this is justified...".  I just can't say enough how valuable it is
to hear what needs to be improved, simply because you'll end up a better writer
because of it.

I can say I've had the fortune of never recieving a flame, but I can imagine
what it may feel like.  I find writing exhilarating and fun, and to have
someone viciously attack what I've written would hurt me very deeply, but the
cool-headed comment of "I didn't like this part because..." or "How can you
justify..." type thing is greatly appreciated.  I can learn from it and grow
from it (and hopefully receive more glowing feedback cuz I fixed stuff :).

I do agree that no feedback, is feedback.  But hurtful feedback is sometimes
better than none...

Just thought I'd add my two cents!

Diane (dharris@h.......)
Proud NNPacker, Knightie, FoDs, and budding CoTKer.
http://www.his.com/~eschmid/Homepage.htm

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Date:    Wed, 2 Aug 2000 07:30:49 EDT
From:    Libratsie@a.......
Subject: fanfic flames (was I'm embarrassed...)

In a message dated 8/1/00 10:53:40 PM Central Daylight Time,
looscann@s....... writes:

>  I know comments finding fault with one's fiction can
>  be quite painful (see, I gotta scar here and here and here... <g>), but
>  constructive criticism is imperative to honing one's skills as a writer.
I also agree with this, but one of the few flames I've received about my
fiction was (and this is paraphrased but VERY close), "Your characterization
was so bad you should be ashamed of yourself and someone should thrash you
very soundly. How could you dare post something so terrible to the list?
Every N&Ner will FLOOD your e-mail box to the point that it is full...."

(DISCLAIMER: The above was ****NOT**** sent by a member of the N&Npack as I
did check into that - and oddly was NOT for one of my Screed and Nat stories.
It was for a Nat/LaCroix part of what was ultimately really a Nick/Nat story.
So please no one jump on me for naming the faction as they did NOT do it!
Besides, it was five years ago.)

Keep in mind the above was received for my first adult piece of fiction for
ANY kind, and only my 3 or 4th regular FK fanfic time. I have a feeling it is
the same for ... was it Lorelie who discussed flames yesterday?  Anyway, the
above is NOT constructive criticism and, in fact, was a threat. I *always*
love constructive criticism, whether I believe what the person said or not.

As I tell people who approach wanting advice on profressional writing (and I
am professionally published), you HAVE to be able to take the licks and often
about your writing. Just remember, that one "I really liked that story" is
worth EVERY insult you ever get as a writer. Critics can be rough so writers
must be tough.

A noted author who was my first college creative writing professor once told
the class that he NEVER told a student he or she could not be a writer
because he was always wrong. Later that semester he told an 18 year old
(*me*) that I should consider other career options. I did, but ultimately
switched schools and kept writing.  The rest is history.  I don't make a
living writing, but do supplement my income.

However, all this said, by and large FK fan fic readers are some of the
friendliest you will ever meet! I've heard of some REALLY nasty remarks in
other fandoms. <shudder>

And thanks everyone for all the "cheese" sent me via e-mail to lure the
Ratpacker h'out from h'under the rock yesser-lesser-day.  Me fav h'iz cheddar
wot h'is melted h'in a sanny-which o' toast, but Velveta <tm> make wunnerful
cheesy dip!

--Libs

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End of FORKNI-L Digest - 1 Aug 2000 to 2 Aug 2000 - Special issue (#2000-233)
*****************************************************************************


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