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FORKNI-L Digest - 30 Jul 2000 to 31 Jul 2000 (#2000-230)

Mon, 31 Jul 2000

There are 19 messages totalling 787 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Nick Knight: Too 'sanitized' for TV? (5)
  2. just some thoughts (2)
  3. Looking for an FK author.
  4. Grammar beta reader needed
  5. popcorn
  6. Admin: Forkni-l rules
  7. Seems like Old Times
  8. Fwd: Pathway Feedback
  9. Pathway Feedback (2)
 10. tears
 11. Green Eggs and Ham (was Re: Seems like Old Times)
 12. Sci-fi's Official Word on FK & UV (2)


Date:    Sun, 30 Jul 2000 13:59:41 -0700
From:    Greer <wyldechilde_2000@y.......>
Subject: Re: Nick Knight: Too 'sanitized' for TV?

Huh.....this is a bit of difficult one to find an
answer to....though clearly I'm gonna give it a go.

To begin with of course Nick Knight was 'sanitized'
for TV.  The show wasn't going to get shown if it had
gouts of blood spurting everywhere and too much
explicit sex and violence.

However to my mind that doesn't mean it wasn't scary.
Implied violence and evil can be even more scary than
the explicit stuff.  Take La Croix in the Valentine
episode....I thought the subtlety of his approach was
creepier than having him just grab her off the street
and try to kill her.  Here was a monster who could
think and liked to play games.

heh...getting off topic a little.

Anyhow a: the show had to be sanitized for TV.  And b:
The writers couldn't really describe Nick as this
threatening figure who was going to rip someone's
throat out.  It would have negated the whole point of
the show which was that Nick was performing penance
for his past misdeeds.  If he'd been a ravening barely
in control monster than he wouldn't have had nearly as
many fans as he does.  There is nothing romantic or
charming about that.

So, tentatively, I'd agree with your critic that Nick
isn't particularly threatening.  Which I would explain
as....you never get the feeling that Nick would
deliberately harm anyone.  Dangerous perhaps, for the
risk he'd lose control, but not threatening.

This, of course, is speaking of modern day Nicholas
and not Bluebeard Nicholas with his larder of anaemic
lady friends.  (And am I the only one who sees Nick
roaming the estate like a mixture of a horse trader
and a procurer.  Leering at the prettier serfs and
then checking their teeth and fingernails to be sure
they're healthy?)

Which is a pain if you're writing a piece of Fanfic
where you need him to appear threatening of course :)

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.


Date:    Sun, 30 Jul 2000 18:28:16 -0400
From:    Cecilia Long <celong@m.......>
Subject: Re: Nick Knight: Too 'sanitized' for TV?

I know its usually four lines... but I felt both points needed to be
addressed in full....

I don't think the point of Forever Knight was for Nick to be a  threat to
everyone who crossed his path. The plotlines of Forever Knight was that Nick
was a Vampire who did not WANT to live by the evil ways and rip people to

That was part of the appeal to me.  Here was this "monster" of the past, a
man who USED to chew through anything in his path, who started to get a soul
and a conscious.  Here was a most deplorable creature spawned from heartache
and depression who is fighting to do right after hundreds of years of wrong.
A child who is starting to grow up.

From this person's comment I don't think he GETS the story.  This isn't
Brams' Stokers Dracula...  This isn't Masquerade... This is  FK.   The
striving of a v ampire to find his humanity. The whole purpose would be to
NOT to have him eating every character in site. In fact I would trust my own
life to Nick's hands (if he were real and I was in a situation where I had

Lady Ariadne--webmistress
ICQ# 10820105

While he praised my skill as a writer, he observed that the Nick in my story
wasn't all that much of a threat to Sara Louise or anyone else who crossed
his path. I quote what he wrote in his reply to me:

>  We never
>  really get the sense that Nick (one of media's most sanitized
>  vampires, IMHO) is a monster, a ravening beast who is quite likely to
>  chew his way through her neck until he gets to the other side.


Date:    Sun, 30 Jul 2000 18:36:28 -0400
From:    Cecilia Long <celong@m.......>
Subject: Re: just some thoughts

How about some weird combo where Nick isnt quite human and isnt quite
vampire. Some strange mix of the two.  This could bring the Enforcers in....
and maybe some old things we dont know about...  HEck, there are things
about vampire hisotry even NICK doesnt know about that Lacroix has neglected
to tell him  This copuld create quite a different angle.  Perhaps the
Enforcers could back down a little from their old rules.

Lady Ariadne--webmistress
ICQ# 10820105
(be it Toronto or wherever) and have the date be current.
In that situation appearance changes in Nick and Nat due
to aging actors would be "normal".


Date:    Sun, 30 Jul 2000 18:37:57 -0400
From:    Cecilia Long <celong@m.......>
Subject: Re: Nick Knight: Too 'sanitized' for TV?

Well DUH is me. The points Im talking about in my last post are at the
bottom... I forgot to move them up, just in case anyone thought I was just
talking to myself... but then again, I have been known to do that... ;-).
Bonks head with nearest woooden object.

Lady Ariadne--webmistress
ICQ# 10820105


Date:    Sun, 30 Jul 2000 20:38:24 -0400
From:    Amand-r <deparsons@e.......>
Subject: Looking for an FK author.

I'm looking for Wayward, who wrote some stuff on the JADFE archive.
The stories are "To Die of A Rose" and "The Defenseless position".  If
anyone knows her email, can I get it.  I must mail her and tell her
that she is absolutely fantastic...


Wolverine:  It's me.
Cyclops:  Prove it.
Wolverine:  You're a dick.
Cyclops:  Okay.
~*~X-Men: The Movie~*~


Date:    Sun, 30 Jul 2000 03:20:51 -0700
From:    Chettina Cook <n9qqq@j.......>
Subject: Grammar beta reader needed

Hi everyone!
        Would anyone mind doing a grammar beta for my fic?  It would be
                Thanks a lot!
                        Night Angel


Date:    Sun, 30 Jul 2000 20:42:03 -0500
From:    "Nancy E. Kaminski" <nancykam@m.......>
Subject: Re: Nick Knight: Too 'sanitized' for TV?

Steph wrote:

> That got me to thinking... do we as fanfic writers tend to
> 'sanitize' Nick a bit too much, or when we write, do we take our lead from the
> writers on the series who may have 'sanitized' Nick first?  I'm asking the
> question because I'm wondering how much can I 'de-sanitize' Nick in the next

As someone else commented, I think that first of all your reviewer doesn't
understand the premise of FK.

While Nick might have been a ravening beast in his youth (and indeed was by his
own admission), he no longer is. Oh, he still has the desire to kill, but he
keeps tight control over it, and hates that he feels that way. One of the
attractions of FK is, IMO, Nick's internal struggle with himself -- between his
vampiric desires and his human moral compass.

I don't think fanfic writers "sanitize" Nick, indeed, I've read flashback scenes
that heark back to the days when he reveled in his vampire nature. Instead,
there is a trend now to infantilize him. I've found that he's portrayed as an
insecure child in many stories, instead of an intelligent, mature adult. (He was
about 35 when he was brought across, which in medieval times was essentially
middle-aged). I'm one of those people who likes to stick to canon when writing,
and I've found no basis for treating Nick as a child in canon. He might be
impetuous, but never, IMO, childish.

Just my .02, of course.

Nancy Kaminski


Date:    Sun, 30 Jul 2000 22:34:12 -0000
From:    Barbara Vainio <bevainio@w.......>
Subject: Re: Nick Knight: Too 'sanitized' for TV?

SFryar@a....... wrote:
> That got me to thinking... do we as fanfic writers tend to 'sanitize' Nick a
> bit too much, or when we write, do we take our lead from the writers on the
> series who may have 'sanitized' Nick first?

I think after first season Nick did become less "monster".  We saw less and
less of his struggle to control the vampire.  It was obviously still there
because he was still looking for a cure, but on a day-to-day (or is that
night-to-night)  basis he no longer seemed to have the battle.  I would have
preferred to see more of the struggle, myself.  It's one of the reason I
like Games Vampires Play so much.  It give Nick back a dimension I missed.

> I'm wondering how much can I 'de-sanitize' Nick in the next story that I'm
> working on before he becomes less of the vampire that we've come to know and
> love during the past 8 years or so?
I'm sure the Dark Knighties will have no problem with "de-sanitizing" Nick.
I also think that that's one of the terrific advantages of fan fic.  WE can
write and read whatever we think will work within the plot lines we



Date:    Mon, 31 Jul 2000 02:18:35 EDT
From:    DanaKnight@a.......
Subject: Re: popcorn

In a message dated 7/22/2000 5:01:22 PM, LISTSERV@l....... writes:

<< DanaKnight@a....... wrote:

> I heard she got revenge on him in Capt. Nat apartment scene in Curiouser and
> Curiouser.

*sigh*  It's been a very very long time since I've seen this ep, so would
someone please refresh my memory and tell me what she did? >>

I heard her playing with his chest and something else (leading to the
choking) was her revenge. But according to the script some of that was in
there. I think her slapping his face wasn't in the script.



Date:    Mon, 31 Jul 2000 10:51:38 -0400
From:    mclisa@m.......
Subject: Admin: Forkni-l rules

For information on managing your subscription and on listserv commands,
please see Don Fasig's page


2. Please don't quote more than four lines of a previous post
in replying. If you have more than one point to answer, then you may quote
the relevant four lines for that point also.

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4. Please don't send to the whole list when you are only talking to the
person who  wrote  the post you are answering.

5. Advertising on list is on a case by case basis. Please consult the
listowners, Lisa McDavid, mclisa@m....... or Don Fasig,
phase3@g....... for permission.

6. This list is for the discussion of Forever Knight. Cast, crew, staff
and producers in connection with what they're doing now or have done in
the past are ok. Vampires in general are _NOT_ ok except in relation
to Forever Knight.

7. Off-topic posts are not allowed, no matter what they are about or
how urgent the warning may appear. If you have an off-topic post which
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8. The private lives of the cast are not a discussion topic. Occasionally
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that, we leave the cast their privacy.

9. Con announcements must come from con officials or a designated
liaison and must be kept brief. Cons are only announced on list if there
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10. Only fan club presidents or other designated spokespeople may
make announcements of future projects for FK cast, crew and staff,
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11. No role-playing on Forkni-l. This includes no character names as
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12. Each subscriber is limited to five posts per day on Forkni-l.

I'll be happy to explain the reason for any of the above if asked.


Cousin McLisa  (Lisa McDavid)  "That will be Trouble."
Listowner Forkni-l, Fkfic-l, Fkv4s-l


Date:    Sun, 30 Jul 2000 18:52:32 -0500
From:    Monica Thadine Rodriguez <mrodri14@u.......>
Subject: Seems like Old Times

>"Susan M. Garrett" <susang@v.......> wrote:
>I was thinking the other day about some of the great times we've had at
>cons, on-line, etc.
>Has anyone collected any of our history?  Is there a place where old con
>reports are kept and viewable?

If anyone's interested in this, I have saved reports from Visions 98 and
LCA2.  Probably not all of them, but the substantial ones.

luscious lucius lover
"I can be your strength when you have none.   I can be your wisdom, your
truth... and all you need to share with me is your very soul."  LaCroix


Date:    Mon, 31 Jul 2000 10:42:53 +0000
From:    Kristin <kris1228@s.......>
Subject: Fwd: Pathway Feedback

Hi Susan,

Just so you know, my intention is to publish your article for the Sept. 1
issue of Pathway. Thanks.

Angie McKaig
Webmaster, Pathway to Darkness

-----Original Message-----
From: SField8067@a....... [mailto:SField8067@a.......]
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 3:10 PM
To: mckaig@m.......
Subject: Re: Pathway Feedback

Dear Ms.McKaig,
Thanks so much for replying to the e-mail i sent regarding running an article
about the Campaign to return "Forever Knight".Below is the article I have put
Hope its okay.please let me know when/where  it will appear so I can let
everyone know :0
thanks again!, all publicity for the cause is most appreciated!!!
**Fans Unite To bring Back The Knight*


Late one night, back in January 1997, at Bridging the Knight, roommates Julie
Stafford and Bobbie Williams tossed around the idea of starting another
campaign to bring back "Forever Knight". While they both agreed that
"something" needed to be done, neither was sure exactly what that "something"
was. They both knew, however, that a new letter writing campaign was
imperative to get the ball rolling.

They enlisted the aid of June Williams, who agreed that time was of the
essence if FK fans were to make any serious attempt at reclaiming the
A few posts to FORKNI-L, intended to generate some enthusiasm about a letter
writing campaign, went largely unnoticed. Disappointed, but not defeated,
they regrouped and made plans to try again.

They then joined forces with a group of people organized by Leslie Plummer
who took on the arduous task of recovering Jamie Randall's now-defunct SOSFK
webpage. Mel Moser worked her own brand of magic on the lost data, and made
it accessible again as apart of her FK fanfic site. Through this
association, Leslie and Mel were brought into the KtK fold.

As it is in life, timing is everything, and just about this time, the FK
segment on Sci-Fi Vortex aired. Ger provided them with a catchy slogan ("If
we could get that thing kickstarted that would be great")...and the positive
enthusiasm expressed by Ger, Nigel and Jim Parriott provided them with
inspiration. Soon, they were off and running with "Kickstart the Knight" as
their battle call.

The original KtK group soon expanded to include Gail Hassell and Jackie
Wilson, and together they made plans to launch "Kickstart the Knight" at
Syndicon in Baltimore. Jackie and Jules created the KtK flyer, June agreed
to produce and sell the KtK t-shirts, and Bobbie and Gail got together with
Ronni Katz to plan a KtK party! The party was a huge success...fans were
introduced to the cause; Nigel, John and Natsuko got to take home their very
own KtK t-shirts.

Again, timing played a big role in stimulating fan involvement, as at this
time Jeri Friedman posted to the list that discussion concerning a new FK
movie was taking place and that NOW was the time to start writing letters to
get back our beloved show!

The enthusiasm for KtK spilled over to FORKNI-L and together we have begun
to develop plans that will secure our cause and promote Forever Knight!


Kickstart the Knight is currently made up of Susan Ellen Field, April
Hackett, Becky Jones, Kristin Harris,Rae Plachecki and Janet Lombardo. A
great deal of strategy planning and work is done by this core group.


KtK exists to bring back "Forever Knight" either as a two hour movie or
(keeping our fingers crossed) a renewed series.

Our primary focus is the letter writing campaign. "The Powers That Be" will
neither know nor care that we're out here unless we let them know! The KtK
campaign, although organized by a handful of individuals, is a campaign for
ALL FK FANS! This is your fight! It is only through individual efforts that
we can, as a group, accomplish what we have set out to do--BRING BACK
"FOREVER KNIGHT"! One loud voice can be lost in the din...but a thousand
voices in harmony, can not be ignored!
n addition to writing letters, we also conduct one or more on-line auctions
each year. These fund additional advertisements for "Forever Knight".  We
have placed large ads in such publications as "The Hollywood Reporter",
"Daily Variety", "Weekly Variety", "Sci Fi Entertainment", "Sci Fi Universe",
and "TV Guide", and have more ads planned.The next Auction scheduled for
sometime in August,2000.
We also have a special something planned for October to be announced!, which
will once again require the combined efforts of all the FK fans.

Our secondary focus is organizing/coordinating/publicizing events that will
promote our efforts to renew "Forever Knight". Science fiction conventions
are our primary targets as that is where we can reach many fans in a short
amount of time. We encourage fans to organize FK tables and/or FK panels at
cons--the organizers are usually very happy to accommodate people who are
willing to fill time slots!! Make up flyers (or use the KtK flyer) and
distribute them at these conventions. There is always a "freebie" table where
you can proudly display your information. Some of the fans who attend these
cons may not be online--or they may not even know FK has been canceled. This
is the BEST way to spread the news!!!

A few months ago, we joined with the fans of THE SENTINEL to place an Ad in
The Hollywood Reporter.
We have also sent an Easter Basket containing hundreds of e-mails from Fans
asking for more FK.
We have had several Feedback blitz"s which basically meant that everyone
online for how many days,, would send as many E-mails to the Sci-Fi channel,
and Tristar/Columbia asking for more FK.We have another planned for the
middle of July 2000, and every month after that until its back on the Sci-fi
Also, we have had many online petitons (still on-going, asking for FK)
We have gathered thousands of signitures!!! These are sent on a regular
basis to TPTB.


KtK plans on continuing the letter writing campaign, continuing to publish
ads in trade publications and sci fi publications, and continuing to conduct
auctions and pledge drives to raise the funds to pay for the ads.Special
projects will continue along with blitz's.And of course we always encourage
and welcome  new ideas from FK fans.


Any questions, suggestions or ideas about KtK or about how you can help to
further the campaign can be sent to SField8067@a........
We also have an official Forever Knight newsletter  called "The Crusader" We
try to make this the most up to date, complete guide to new and old FK fans.
It contains Website #'s, star updates, Ways for the FK fans to help make
more happen, and lots and lots of other goodies!
To subscribe online for free: contact: knightwave@a.......
to receive offline hard copys, all that is needed are enough stamps for as
many issues as you would like.contact: BJDFKfan@a.......  for more
or if you are not on the computer, write to:
Kickstart The Knight
P.O. box 1914
Racine,WI 53401-1914

We have had three Forever Knight Pocketbooks, and two CD's!!!
The fight goes on!!!
We will not stop until we get more of everything !!!
There have been many people involved, in one way or the other, with the
campaign since its inception. They have been there to guide us, to help us,
to listen to our rants and provide shoulders to cry on. We'd like to thank
Karen Tobin, Tina Moreschi, Ronni Katz (aka Ron the Enforcer), Robert Sellers
(for the SOSFK loop), Sandee Buskey, and the many, many, others who have
lent their minds to new ideas, and have given their time to help with this
The official Kickstart the Knight website can be found at:
Here you can find back issues to our FK newsletter "The Crusader".
flyers that can be printed out to take to conventions to spread the word.
All *The Powers That Be* addresses, along with many other items of interest
to the Forever Knight fan.
This is updated as often as possible.
So Hang in there *Forever Knight* Fans!! We have just begun to fight!

Susan Ellen Field
Kickstart The Knight (Fearless Leader)


Date:    Mon, 31 Jul 2000 13:08:50 EDT
From:    teri delong <darius4evr@h.......>
Subject: Re: just some thoughts

>From: Cecilia Long <celong@m.......>

>How about some weird combo where Nick isnt quite human and isnt quite
>vampire. Some strange mix of the two.  <snip>
>(be it Toronto or wherever) and have the date be current. In that situation
>appearance changes in Nick and Nat due to aging actors would be "normal".

That could have potential! For that matter, going on the assumption that Nat
would have continued to try out her experiments on Nick, it's hard to say
*what* she would have concocted or what effects it would have on Nick
physically. If the Lido-whateveryacallit had worked better in "The Fix", say
for months at a time instead of minutes or hours, and he stayed basically
mortal for longer stretches, it's easy to believe he would eventually start
showing signs of aging over a long period of time and continued use of the
stuff. But with Nick's luck, of course, whatever she had devised would
inevitably prove to have insurmountable side-effects and they'd have to
discontinue use, hence back to square one.

Either way, those of us who loved Nick as a vampire, who loved the show
*because* of that quest for mortality, that constant struggle to overcome
what he is, would still have the premise that drew us in and hopelessly
addicted us in the first place. Personally, I can't imagine enjoying the
show 1/4 as much if Nick actually regained his mortality. Where is the
challenge then? What would he have to angst over? And how exciting and
intriguing can it be to have a show about a Toronto detective who *used* to
be a vampire? What would his flashbacks be......things he used to be able to
do when he was special? "Daggone it! I could have caught that guy
if......!!!" :o) :o)

:::running and hiding from my fellow NNpackers who have an intense desire to
see them married with a gazillion kids:::<shudder>

teri--just speaking for myself, of course!
(quite sure she's stomped on some toes with this one! sowwy)

Check him out!... http://www.benbassfanclub.com/
Proud Vaquera/Vachon's vassal/Defender of Brown-eyed Vamps
ForeverNat/FoRP/Crew/GKfc/GWDfc/Nigelbennett list lurker

LFN Operative in Training, Section One DenialLand Substation


Date:    Mon, 31 Jul 2000 13:19:20 EDT
From:    SField8067@a.......
Subject: Re: Pathway Feedback

you posted the entire e-mail!!
Oh man!!


Date:    Mon, 31 Jul 2000 13:45:05 EDT
From:    SField8067@a.......
Subject: Re: Pathway Feedback

sorry guys, (Lisa) that was suppose to go out privatley :)


Date:    Mon, 31 Jul 2000 02:04:57 -0700
From:    Lucia Nicolau <lnicolau@p.......>
Subject: tears

shortly delurking there -
i just went through the shock of first watching "Last Night" and apart
from everything else right now, I am not sure i got it right, my episode
copy was not that great -
did Nick really shed *clear* tears? Were they not supposed to be blood
tears, like the sweat? Has Nick cried in any other episode?
thanks for clarifying that to a rookie


Date:    Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:05:06 EDT
From:    Laudon1965@a.......
Subject: Green Eggs and Ham (was Re: Seems like Old Times)

In a message dated 07/29/2000 8:42:03 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
magicpac@t....... writes:

<< Syndicon in Baltimore was great, wasn't it?  I'll never forget Nigel and
 John reading Green Eggs and Ham.  It was my favorite. >>

I just got a video of that classic moment (::waves to Billie-Lee::)  I fell
apart watching it, trying to keep from howling with laughter because it was
the middle of the night.  (Nigel in LC's "dragon's breath voice" intoning
"Would you, could you, with a goat?" <weg>)  What John Kapelos said at the
end was right, whoever dreamt up having them do that had a brilliant idea.

Laurie of the Isles


Date:    Mon, 31 Jul 2000 13:29:41 +0000
From:    Kristin <kris1228@s.......>
Subject: Sci-fi's Official Word on FK & UV

Dear Fellow FK fans!!
It seems that everyone has made thier point about Fk Vs Ultra-Violet on the
BBoards.And we have actually gotten thier attention!

We  at KtK are asking that you no longer post any opinions,or responses on
the UV BBoard at this time,  but to just continue to send in the blitz
e-mails as usual to feedback and Tristar.

here is an exerpt from TPTB reply to our e-mails!

>>>>>The programmers at SCI FI are fans of Forever Knight. A revival of that
series continues to be discussed internally, though we have no news at this

So the hope is alive,and we have alot of work ahead!!

HUGS, susan


Date:    Mon, 31 Jul 2000 16:03:14 -0400
From:    Emily Hanson <hansone@t.......>
Subject: Re: Sci-fi's Official Word on FK & UV


Sounds like it's starting to work :)
Now if we can just get some Sony staff on our side.


------Original Message------
From: Kristin <kris1228@s.......>
To: FORKNI-L@l.......
Sent: July 31, 2000 1:29:41 PM GMT
Subject: [FORKNI-L] Sci-fi's Official Word on FK & UV

here is an exerpt from TPTB reply to our e-mails!

>>>>>The programmers at SCI FI are fans of Forever Knight. A revival of that
series continues to be discussed internally, though we have no news at this

So the hope is alive,and we have alot of work ahead!!

HUGS, susan

Emily M. Hanson


End of FORKNI-L Digest - 30 Jul 2000 to 31 Jul 2000 (#2000-230)

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