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FORKNI-L Digest - 26 Jul 2000 to 27 Jul 2000 - Special issue (#2000-225)

Thu, 27 Jul 2000

Thu, 27 Jul 2000

There are 32 messages totalling 1058 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. Attracted to vampires? (7)
  2. Nat and Tracy
  3. Nat and Nick (6)
  4. [Re: [FORKNI-L] Attracted to vampires?] (3)
  5. If LaCroix were real
  6. Crazy Love and Baby Baby
  7. Baby-Baby (4)
  8. Vampire attraction (2)
  9. Why Do We Need a Replacement Vampire Series? (4)
 10. Crazy Love
 11. FK as detective or cop show fare (2)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 17:22:16 -0400
From:    Bonnie Rutledge <br1035@i.......>
Subject: Re: Attracted to vampires?

McLisa wrote:
<snip> So, I can truthfully say that here is one fan who isn't attracted to
> vampires as vampires.<snip>

Yes, I'm with McLisa.

What's so darn attractive about vampires is some of the actors
portraying them. And their storylines. Oh - and what the wardrobe department
picks out for them to wear. That's not attraction to the vampire, it's
attraction to the production values.

I can't imagine anyone fantasizing about some single-minded
Nosferatu chomping down on them. Last I heard, Max Schreck does not have
an estrogen-brigade.

Now if we were discussing attraction to FK because it was a detective show...
that's a whole 'nother pair of shoes.

<waves>

**************************************************************************
Bonnie Rutledge.......<br1035@i.......>.......Single and Fabulous!
"Somewhere out there is another little freak who will love us, understand
us, and kiss our three heads and make it all better." - 'Sex and the City'
     "This is going to be embarrassing, isn't it?" - Cousin Jules

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 22:30:42 +0100
From:    Laurie <laurie@f.......>
Subject: Re: Attracted to vampires?

>Bonnie Rutledge :
> Yes, I'm with McLisa.
>
> What's so darn attractive about vampires is some of the actors
> portraying them. And their storylines. Oh - and what the wardrobe
> department picks out for them to wear. That's not attraction to the vampire,
> it's attraction to the production values.
>
> I can't imagine anyone fantasizing about some single-minded
> Nosferatu chomping down on them. Last I heard, Max Schreck does not have
> an estrogen-brigade.
>
> Now if we were discussing attraction to FK because it was a detective show...
> that's a whole 'nother pair of shoes.

.. I gotta disagree.. There is something attractive about eternal life! I
don't think I'd want to be a vampire's snack, but to -be- a vampire...
that's different. You are right for the most part about the fascination
being with the stylish manner in which they're portrayed. Most vampires on
television cut a stylish figure indeed. But there are things that make them
seem lucky, aside from all the murderin' and complainin'

- Most of them seem rich, and don't need to work.
-They don't (or rarely, cause FK ran some plots to shatter this one) get
sick or die unless slain by someone very determined.
-They have all those heightened senses, they experience (they claim so
often) more than any mere mortal could wish to.
-They can whoosh around in the air at will (hence, saving the planet from
evil car fumes... yay!)
-They're experts at getting their own way (hypnotism and plain powers of
persuasion, and failing that... those eyes and teeth -are- very
intimidating..)

I think they're attractive... very. The only drawback is the sun... which
isn't too much to give up in light (heh) of the benefits. Nick proved they
don't have to kill to survive. If he'd just get on with it.. damn it... I
mean, why on earth would someone wanna be mortal?

My two cents.. :-)

- Laurieta

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 17:10:29 -0500
From:    Barbara Aszman Stone <StoneB@g.......>
Subject: Nat and Tracy

I don't think Nat was every jealous of Tracy for being Nick's
partner.  I think she was quite irritated with Tracy for asking
"Are you sure?" because it Tracy seemed to be questioning her
professional competance.  Tracy can be pardoned for this; if
she'd had more experience, she would never had asked the
question.
        B. Stone
        stoneb@g.......

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 18:08:15 EDT
From:    Ceily Trog <Fk4ever1228@a.......>
Subject: Re: Nat and Nick

In a message dated 7/26/00 2:53:10 PM Central Daylight Time,
cgi271@a....... writes:

<< She does this in times of extreme emotional stress (wow, imagine someone
not being perfect all the time <g>), but I don't recall her encouraging him
to be vampiric on a normal day-to-day basis. Am I forgetting something?  >>

No one has mentioned that Nat never (at least in canon) asked Nick to take
her flying.  That was the first thing that the psychic asked Nick to do when
she found out he was really a vampire and she was not going crazy.  I know it
would be something I would most definitely ask a vampire to do -- or maybe I
should say a vampire who wasn't interested in me as a snack!

BTW, I am totally with McLisa (and others) as far as Nat falling in love with
the man, not the beast.  Neither would I have any desire to become a vampire
- although under the circumstances of AMPH and Last Knight, I probably would
do the same as Nat.

While I am not really a NatPacker (I would tend toward a Neck of the Week
faction if there was such a thing <g>), I think that Nat deserves to be
defended.  She is a strong character with some flaws.  Just like with Nick -
if she were perfect, she would not be as appealing to me.

The idea of LaCroix being a real being absolutely terrifies me although as a
character, he is fascinating!

I love reading everyone's opinions on this!  Agree or not, this is a
wonderful discussion!!!

fk4ever

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 17:17:37 CDT
From:    "Emily M.Hanson" <emily.m.hanson@u.......>
Subject: Re: [Re: [FORKNI-L] Attracted to vampires?]

I think the reason most vampires seem rich is because the are rich.  If you
lived forever, and saved just $100 every year, after 800 years went by you'd
have quite a bit of cash even without investing.

There are other drawbacks besides the sun.  Would you want to give up the
taste of chocolate or a Starbuck's cappucino, for one?  (Okay so some Vampire
the Masquerade vamps can eat food, it's an expensive bonus, but the
storytellers I've had say they don't taste it.)

Also there are theological drawbacks, if you happen to believe in souls and
heaven.  Again in other vampire universes, there are vampires who believe in
God and can touch crosses without harm.  (This is a really expensive bonus in
VTM.)  But not in FK that we've seen so far.

Also for a woman, there is childbirth.  I'm not particularly dying to have a
kid, but some people may not want to give up that opportunity.

Anyways that's just my opinion. <g>

Emily

Laurie <laurie@f.......> wrote:

> - Most of them seem rich, and don't need to work.

> -- snip --
> I think they're attractive... very. The only drawback is the sun... which
isn't too much to give up in light (heh) of the benefits. Nick proved they
don't have to kill to survive. If he'd just get on with it.. damn it... I
mean, why on earth would someone wanna be mortal?
>
> My two cents.. :-)
>
> - Laurieta

Emily M. Hanson

http://www.starbase-eprime.com

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 19:07:20 -0400
From:    Amand-r <deparsons@e.......>
Subject: Re: [Re: [FORKNI-L] Attracted to vampires?]

<Emily>
> There are other drawbacks besides the sun.  Would you want to give upthe
> taste of chocolate or a Starbuck's cappucino, for one?  (Okay so some Vampire
> the Masquerade vamps can eat food, it's an expensive bonus, but the
> storytellers I've had say they don't taste it.)

Interestingly enough, the vampire consolation in a lot of cases had
been that (getting squicky) the actual experience of drinking blood
blows chocolate and everything else out of the water.  Yes, even
Swedish fish pale in the light of the sanguine extract.  So, this would
be less of a loss.

All I can think of this is Nat's face when Nick is trying to describe
the actual blood consumption process in "Franchesca".  Remember what
Vachon says of being brought across:  "It was the most erotic thing
I've ever experienced".

> Also for a woman, there is childbirth.  I'm not particularly dying to have a
> kid, but some people may not want to give up that opportunity.

Agreed.  Unless you can't have them.  I also agree with the whole
"money" thing.  Really, you'd have to be an  idiot if you couldn't do
it.  I wonder sometimes how much LC is worth.  He wasn't happy about
Nick stealing all that money in Blood Money", I think.

Amand-r --Still unfactioned and standing in the middle in utter
confusion.
"Look!  Look how I go!"

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 19:32:29 -0400
From:    Bonnie Rutledge <br1035@i.......>
Subject: Re: Attracted to vampires?

Laurie wrote:
<snip> .. I gotta disagree.. There is something attractive about eternal life! I
> don't think I'd want to be a vampire's snack, but to -be- a vampire...
> that's different.<snip>

See, I think fans vary in their interest in 'becoming a vampire.'

Here are my top 10 reasons why I wouldn't want to be a vampire, many based on
events in the show.

10) I have to work hard enough to keep my home free of cat hair. If I added
blood stains to the workload, I'd go mental.

9) I get bored from time to time, even with only one lifetime on my hands.
Picture Nick balancing tarot cards on his head. Five times the boredom (Vachon).
Eight times the boredom (Nick). Twenty times the boredom (LaCroix). Ick.

8) I wouldn't want heightened senses or hypnotic powers. I don't need to fly.
To me, the negative aspect of these special abilities, that they isolate the
individual from the majority, outweighs the thrill of using them the first few
times. If there's one thing Nick's angst sessions represented to me, it's an
encroaching loneliness. How many people suffer from the societal pressure that
'they don't fit in'already?
Becoming a vampire would not solve that issue, but make it worse. Besides, I
already have talents, and I bend people to my will all the time. Giving me the
ability to whammy would be gratuitous.

7) Becoming immortal would mean living with my thighs *forever.*

6) I am not a spiritual person, so the status of my soul is not a dealbreaker.
I do,  however, find something valuable in the cycle of birth, growth and death.
I visit my grandmother on a weekly basis, and while I may see a woman who no
longer has the physical strength that she did when I was a child or the ability
to do all the things that she feels passion for (she was an artist until she
had a stroke 8 years ago), I also see a woman who has lived, who has
contributed to the world through her family and her smiles, who is fiery and
stubborn and a survivor, and whose regrets do not keep her up at night. She's
the most beautiful woman I know, and I have never wanted anything more than to
be just like her - eighty-four and well-lived. Vampires seem tragic to me,
because they have never reached satisfaction from living from start to finish.
They are incomplete, frozen, motivated by fear, and objects that I pity.

5) To me, mortal frailty is a wonderful thing. It's just that much more
impressive that we accomplish the things we do.

4) Maybe it would be neat to see history unfold, civilizations rise and fall.
On the other hand, I feel like I've lived through some interesting moments of
history already: the breakup of ABBA, the space shuttle Challenger tragedy, the
fall of the Berlin Wall, the birth of grunge music, the deaths of Princess
Diana and JFK Jr., and the dawn of a new millenium. Here again, though, appears
the concept of isolation. Janette speaks of the feeling in 'If Looks Could
Kill,' of each generation experiencing their music and fashions gathering dust
in the attic, caving in to the next younger generation that comes along. Now,
she acts as though vampires have a better deal, but I think its a longer, more
tedious one. Vampires have to adapt to the changes in the culture that
surrounds them for better or for worse if they don't want to draw
attention. LaCroix loses his plantations before he'd like. Nick gets brought
before the committing investigating unAmerican Activities. Janette has to fill
out tax forms. Not all the changes are fun.

3) I hate moving already. Relocating my entire identity every 15-20 years is
not remotely tempting.

2) I *love* the sun. Love it. Love it. Love it. It's been cloudy and rainy
for five days straight, and I'm growing petulant and pale. A year without sun?
A century? Longer? I'd have a <hand motion> psychological problem with that.

And the top reason why I wouldn't want to be a vampire:

1) I already have a liquid addiction. It's called COFFEE.

<waves>

**************************************************************************
Bonnie Rutledge.......<br1035@i.......>.......Single and Fabulous!
"I know how to please a man. Give him all your power." - 'Sex and the City'
"My Bond Girl name was 'Racy Linens.' Does this mean HMSS knows about all
                       the orange lingerie?"

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 20:12:26 -0400
From:    mclisa@m.......
Subject: If LaCroix were real

>The idea of LaCroix being a real being absolutely terrifies me although as a
character, he is fascinating!

Years ago, I compared LC to the tigers at the zoo. They're beautiful. I love
to watch them -- but I would definitely not want to find myself on their
side of the fence.

Cousin McLisa  (Lisa McDavid)  "That will be Trouble." -- yeah, I have
enough trouble with my house cats, most of whom are convinced they _are_
tigers.
mclisa@m.......
Listowner Forkni-l, Fkfic-l, Fkv4s-l

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 20:14:38 EDT
From:    Sss44@a.......
Subject: Re: Crazy Love and Baby Baby

In a message dated 7/25/00 4:50:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jecklund@l....... writes:

<< Was that the same episode where she calls him
 on the phone and talk so him like a 2 year old about eating food etc.
 That makes me cringe! >>

Especially since *none* of her diets or pills or drinks or nostrums help. If
he doesn't drink blood he gets weak, like in Dark Knight, when she has to
give him a transfusion from Schanke. I wonder if she ever considered
artificial blood, if there is such a thing?

Scottie
sss44@a.......

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 20:21:07 EDT
From:    Sss44@a.......
Subject: Re: Baby-Baby

In a message dated 7/25/00 10:41:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Laudon1965@a....... writes:

<< He may have bitten her without any physical relations between them at all,
 and she still could have woken up feeling like they'd had sex.   >>

And didn't James Parriott say that for vampires, sex is all about the bite?

scottie
sss44@a.......

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 20:23:35 EDT
From:    Sss44@a.......
Subject: Re: Nat and Nick

In a message dated 7/25/00 10:49:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Laudon1965@a....... writes:

<< There seem to be metaphysical as well as phyiscal
 aspects to it.
  >>

And there's no physical reason why garlic or crosses or spells on paper (as
in Cherry Blossoms) or a Native American knife would affect vampires. It's
got to be partly a metaphysical or supernatural (preternatural?) thing as
well.

scottie
sss44@a.......

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 20:27:03 EDT
From:    Sss44@a.......
Subject: Re: Nat and Nick

In a message dated 7/25/00 11:51:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jecklund@l....... writes:

<<  Your opinions are valid about
 the addiction, he did ask for help and he did go behind her back a
 lot.I know he loved her and was just too afraid she would end up like
 Allisa (Alysa?) >>

And he tells her over and over and over again that he can't control himself
once he starts. She seems to not believe him, when she should--she knows it's
happened again and again. He apparently doesn't have the willpower or
training (didn't LC say that they didn't get around to some lessons?) to do
it the way Janette did.

scottie
sss44@a.......

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Jul 2000 01:23:24 +0100
From:    Laurie <laurie@f.......>
Subject: Re: Baby-Baby

<scottie : >
> And didn't James Parriott say that for vampires, sex is all about the
bite?
-------

I wanted to ask someone about that. In 'Ashes to Ashes' Divia asks LaCroix
to make love to her, -after- she's brought him across. This caused me much
confusion. Someone educate me..?

- Laurieta

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 20:28:00 EDT
From:    MLCVamp@a.......
Subject: Vampire attraction

Count me among the fans who watched FK because of the allure of the vampire.
(NOT that I'm drawn to evil; my favorite vampire books and movies are those
that don't portray vampires as necessarily evil.  I'm drawn to the vampire as
a sort of almost-human alien with a highly erotic way of interacting with the
human species <EG>.)  I started watching the show (beginning with the 2
pilots) specifically because it was a vampire series.  In fact, I liked
almost everything about it EXCEPT the "cure" motif, which, I must admit,
places me in a position of struggling against the series' core premise.  As a
friend of mine once put it, "Why would you want to cure a perfectly good
vampire?"  As I see it, Nick could just as well resist the lure of evil
without renouncing his vampiric existence.

I would happily watch any vampire series, and I would like to be able to see
how "Ultra-Violet" turns out -- except I can't, because of the stubbornness
and/or indifference-to-customers of our half-baked cable company.  Most of
the rest of the world (well, the continent, anyway) has had the SciFi Channel
since the early 90s, and we still don't!  Every time new channels are added
to the lineup, they are either duplications of things we already have
(another dumb shopping channel, an HBO-2, etc.) or cheap, no-name channels
that we've never heard of.  It has taken us until less than a year ago to get
History and Animal Planet, for goodness' sake.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 20:30:11 EDT
From:    Sss44@a.......
Subject: Re: Nat and Nick

In a message dated 7/26/00 5:39:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time, mcombs@e.......
writes:

<< She also knew that he'd deliberately taken a pipe-bomb to save lives.
 And the audience knows that he did actually risk his life by doing that,
 because if his head had been blown off, he would have truly died. >>

I've always wondered if he was a cop before the pipe bomb incident, or after.
It isn't made completely clear. We know he was a cop in Chicago for a while,
but his lack of aging would have aroused lots of questions. So what was he
doing between then and when he came to Toronto?

scottie
sss44@a.......

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 17:31:40 -0700
From:    Cloud <clouddancer@h.......>
Subject: Re: Attracted to vampires?

> I can't imagine anyone fantasizing about some single-minded Nosferatu
> chomping down on them.

Ahh, but who among us knows what "real" vampires are truly like? And if
"real" vampires are like our FK vamps, who says they'd all be like Nick?
Maybe he's the exception and the majority aren't driven by an over
active bloodlust. Could be the average vamp's need for blood escalates
as he get progressively more hungry... just like a starving human. The
difference would be the natural source of food for each. Remember,
vampires aren't the only predators.

> Becoming immortal would mean living with my thighs *forever.*

Now there's a good point... *looking in the mirror & cringing*  ;)

--
Cloud

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 20:35:04 EDT
From:    MrsMech@a.......
Subject: Re: Why Do We Need a Replacement Vampire Series?

In a message dated 7/26/00 11:41:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
mclisa@m....... writes:

<< Just one suggestion: let's be as positive as possible about this. If the new
 series is a success, it may cause them to give us back FK on the theory that
 vampires attract fans. >>

I read recently that Sci-Fi is supposed to have 'Ultraviolet' as a short run
series (I could have read it wrong though.) and FOX is in the process of
making an actual long run series format of the show. Ultraviolet is, from
what I remember, a series that was shown in England (or somewhere in Europe)
and that the fans of the original show don't believe that the series will fly
here because the American audience expects something totally different than
what the original show was. Something to the effect that we don't have the
quality of shows when we remake an original series from another country.

Also, on what is probably going to be an unpopular opinion from me, I don't
really think that continuing the FK series would be possible now. I think
that it's been so long since the series went off the air (in the television
world, not the real world) and that the actors are so far removed from the
series and are doing other work. I would love to have the series on again,
but I just don't think that it's possible to bring FK back as anything more
than just television movies here and there, kind of an Alien Nation thing
which was great because I love that show and was happy to get anything over
nothing. But that's just my opinion, and I have been wrong before.

Monique

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Jul 2000 01:35:49 +0100
From:    Laurie <laurie@f.......>
Subject: Re: Attracted to vampires?

> Bonnie wrote:

>Besides, I already
> have talents, and I bend people to my will all the time. Giving me the
> ability to whammy would be gratuitous.
>
> 7) Becoming immortal would mean living with my thighs *forever.*
>

LOL! Okay I agree... I wouldn't want my thighs forever either, but still...
we're assuming that our bodies are all movie-star perfect. Well I am anyway,
hehe.

>Vampires seem tragic to me, because they have never reached satisfaction
> from living from start to finish. They are incomplete, frozen, motivated
> by fear, and objects that I pity.

I don't pity them, I'm jealous, of the idea of them anyway. I fear getting
old, more than anything in the world.
I guess it all depends on how you consider the vampire. Some people see it
as less than mortal, and others as more.

Sometimes I think of them as on the way to perfection. Humans are made both
beautiful and grotesque by their ability to think, their transcendence of
the animal kingdom. It gives us the opportunity to think in terms of good
and evil, which is a gift and a curse. Vampires have a little beast in them
which drives them to kill, a carnivorous animal instinct. Animals are
oblivious to good and evil, therefore innocent. Vampires are a mixture of
the two. You might see that as an awful curse... but I don't.. I think that
the difficulty for them is accepting the change from mortal to vampire,
really accepting, letting go of the guilt and so on. Only when the intellect
is unfettered by the ever changing perceptions of good and evil... can it
really be free.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 17:49:46 -0700
From:    fkforever <fkforever@y.......>
Subject: Re: Why Do We Need a Replacement Vampire Series?

<<I just don't think that it's possible to bring FK back as anything
more than just television movies here and there, kind of an Alien Nation
thing which was great because I love that show and was happy to get
anything over nothing...      Monique>>

I would love anything FK we can get, a made for TV movie and hopfully the
series on video tape or better yet DVD.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 20:56:03 EDT
From:    Ceily Trog <Fk4ever1228@a.......>
Subject: Re: Attracted to vampires?

In a message dated 7/26/00 6:27:17 PM Central Daylight Time,
br1035@i....... writes:

<< 7) Becoming immortal would mean living with my thighs *forever.* >>

ROTFL

I can add that my biggest regret would be *behind* me........forever.

fk4ever

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Jul 2000 13:26:15 +1200
From:    Knightraven <knightraven@c.......>
Subject: Re: Baby-Baby

I just watched babybaby and I thought that when Nick turned his back to
Serena and the xyy guy, that the flashes of lovemaking were flashbacks of
him and Serena. It looks like Nick...

And initally when they went back to Nick's place, did Nick bite her in the
beginning or did he just get aroused and change? They cut before you really
saw if he went for the neck or not.

;)
knightraven@c.......  ICQ# 79163147,  AOL & Yahoo - Knightravenz
http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/knightraven
FK Merchandise available here! T-shirts, Hats etc!

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 21:56:24 -0400
From:    Portia 1 <portia1@m.......>
Subject: Re: Crazy Love

>Oookay, I am probably going to get myself into serious trouble now, but
>when did that ever stop me <g>?

Margie, no trouble 'cause I love your interpretation of Nick and Nat's
reaction in this ep -- good job!

Portia

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 22:25:29 -0400
From:    Portia 1 <portia1@m.......>
Subject: Re: Nat and Nick

I think Cindy Ingram has done a fantastic job of sharing a compassionate
and even-keeled analysis of the characters and their situations.  I'm
gratified to discover my own views so eloquently expressed!

>The sad truth is that we all hurt people we love and care about, whether
>intentionally or unintentionally. Nat's no different from any of us in that
>respect. Nat has hurt Nick, Nick has hurt Nat, Janette and Lacroix have
>hurt Nick and vice versa. It's a good thing most of us are capable of
>forgiving each other or we'd be in big trouble. And Nick, as we've seen
>time and again, has a very forgiving nature.

A very balanced view!

 Nick is normally reluctant to discuss anything of this nature with her, so
who knows how much he would have actually admitted if the conversation
*had* continued. <shrug>

And given this, perhaps Nat is sometimes a little quick to dismiss
expectations of getting any real confirmation from him on these deeper
"vampiric" matters.

Lucky for him, eh, since there aren't too many therapists out there who
specialize in counseling vampires who long to be human again. <G>

I appreciate you sharing this perception because, perhaps too often, Nick
is denigrated for "using" people.  He is fighting a very difficult fight
and has to face challenges that might break other men, at such times we all
need friends to support us.  He tries his best to return the favor, I think.
>
>
>Again, I think all this proves is that she's an imperfect human rather than
>the noble paragon of virtue some of us would like her to be. .... But  I
also think the fact that she wasn't makes her a more interesting and
*believable* character.

Again, your perceptions prove to be well-balanced and realistic!  (No
wonder I like and recommend your ficiton so much! "g")

Portia the Impressed

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 22:45:39 -0400
From:    Portia 1 <portia1@m.......>
Subject: Re: [Re: [FORKNI-L] Attracted to vampires?]

Emily said:
>There are other drawbacks besides the sun.

Yeah, and for me (though this may sound sappy or "do-goody") the
selfishness and self-centeredness, the living paramountly for one's own
pleasure and well being is a life not worth living!  In my perception, the
most mature, well-rounded, and brave, heroic people are those who have the
strength to work not only for their own happiness, but for the happiness
(or at least the well-being) of others.  And that is why, ultimately, that
I think LaCroix and Janette treasure Nick so much.  Some part of him never
lost that ability to think about others -- outside of their importance to
himself.  He represents a part of themselves that they have either lost or
deliberately buried.

Yeah, he did live centuries as a cold-blooded murderer, and I think he had
to work very hard to rationalize it to himself.  I remember his contempt
for Janette and LaCroix's actions as they tormented their prey -- the old
man who Janette said reminded her of LaCroix's father (though how would she
know??).  The uncertainty he felt on seeing the grief of the woodsman's
wife and other such twinges of conscience reflect a person who remembers
what it is like to care about others, to protect others.  Nick doesn't
carry his guilt around because he is a masochist, but because he finally
came to a place where he realized he had betrayed his most fundamental
principles and most heart-felt oaths to, not just his God and church, but
to himself.

Portia

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 22:57:50 -0400
From:    Portia 1 <portia1@m.......>
Subject: Re: Why Do We Need a Replacement Vampire Series?

Monique said:
>Also, on what is probably going to be an unpopular opinion from me, I don't
>really think that continuing the FK series would be possible now. I think
>that it's been so long since the series went off the air (in the television
>world, not the real world) and that the actors are so far removed from the
>series and are doing other work. I would love to have the series on again,
>but I just don't think that it's possible to bring FK back as anything more
>than just television movies here and there,

I'm sorta with Monique here -- but what I *really* want are more
NOVELS!!!!!!  Aargghhh!  I still feel my heart skip a beat when I see the
FK spine at the local bkstore -- and then the awful plummet when I realize
it is one of the 3 I already have. sigh.

Portia (committing blasphemy?)

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 23:07:00 EDT
From:    Libratsie@a.......
Subject: Re: Why Do We Need a Replacement Vampire Series?

In a message dated 7/26/00 9:58:49 PM Central Daylight Time,
portia1@m....... writes:

> I'm sorta with Monique here -- but what I *really* want are more
>  NOVELS!!!!!!  Aargghhh!  I still feel my heart skip a beat when I see the
>  FK spine at the local bkstore -- and then the awful plummet when I realize
>  it is one of the 3 I already have. sigh.
I think many of us realize FK won't return as a SERIES, but there's much else
to work for:

1) a tv movie
2) the return of the reruns to the Sci Fi Channel(!!!!!!!!!!! the main thing
I'm wanting right now!)
3) more novels
4) more soundtracks
5) more merchandise
6) release of existing episodes on DVD and video tape

You'll find address to cover most, if not all, of those when Kickstart the
Knight occasionally posts the address list.

THe actors are busy with other projects so most of us do realize the return
of a series with new episodes is unlikely. But there's SO much other stuff to
fight for!

--Libs

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Jul 2000 00:04:47 EDT
From:    Laudon1965@a.......
Subject: FK as detective or cop show fare

In a message dated 07/26/2000 2:16:48 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
br1035@i....... writes:

<< What's so darn attractive about vampires is some of the actors
 portraying them. <snip>
 Now if we were discussing attraction to FK because it was a detective show...
 that's a whole 'nother pair of shoes.   >>

That brings up an interesting question: if you forget the fantasy/horror
element of the vampires on the show, how does FK rate as a cop show?  Are the
crime and detective stories interesting enough in and of themselves, to carry
the show.   I'm not a huge fan of cop shows, the closest I come is having
watched most of the "couples" detective shows of the eighties (Scarecrow and
Mrs. King, Remington Steele and Moonlighting) so I'm not the greatest judge
of the genre. I'd be interested in seeing some informed opinions on this.

Laurie of the Isles

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 26 Jul 2000 23:45:59 -0500
From:    Rebecca Hinson <thanato@b.......>
Subject: Re: FK as detective or cop show fare

Laudon1965@a....... wrote:

> That brings up an interesting question: if you forget the fantasy/horror
> element of the vampires on the show, how does FK rate as a cop show?  Are the
> crime and detective stories interesting enough in and of themselves, to carry
> the show.

See, in my opinion, this is a toughie.  I think the show is very good when it
comes to the detective stories.  However, most of the whole mystery solving part
of it seems to rely on Nick's vampiric powers. At the moment, having pain
medication in my system, I can barely call up any examples, but the best one I
can give you is, IIRC, "Dark Knight" when he pulled the guy out of the window...
falling a few stories to do it.   All right, all right, so that wasn't the best
example, because there was no mystery to it, but he *did* use his vampiric
powers to find the hostage and then used them again to thwart the villain.

Interesting enough, yes, I think so.  But I think they rely just a bit too much
on Nick being a vampire.  I don't think the show would have worked as well with
Nick as a mortal.  I think that with Nick having the capability to be one of
the "bad guys" (and, IMO, in most portrayals of vampires, the vampires are
usually the villains.), it gave the show a little bit of an edge over other
cop shows.

Just my .02 worth...
:o)
Becky

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 28 Aug 1956 03:59:14 +0000
From:    Jeannie Ecklund <jecklund@l.......>
Subject: Re: Baby-Baby

> << He may have bitten her without any physical relations between them at all,
>  and she still could have woken up feeling like they'd had sex.   >>
>

Look at the video: thats not the man Serena's with on the tower those
scene's of love making while Nick has his back to her it shows Nick and
Serena together and he's not just biting her,  Nick's remembering her
in his arms and their love making. Its pretty tense.

jeannie

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 28 Aug 1956 04:07:41 +0000
From:    Jeannie Ecklund <jecklund@l.......>
Subject: Re: Nat and Nick

>And he tells her over and over and over again that he can't control himself
>once he starts. She seems to not believe him, when she should--she knows it's

There are two episodes that I have seen where Nick had a room full of
half drained girls and he went to each one.  He could stop and not
leave them drained.  Also that other show with the beautiful young
reneisaunce looking woman.  She came to him repeatedly and he drained
only some of her blood,  She had partially healed scares on her neck
when she finally died in his arms. He does know how to stop.

I guess with Nat it was always extra dangerous cause she was starving
him.  And if he did love her he might not be able to stop as easily.

I can't imagine who decided to wrote that last episode.  Since Ger
directed it he must have realised the sow was very cancelled and
perhapse they wanted to move on.  Has anyone ever heard he talk about
Last Knight?

jeannie

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Jul 2000 06:00:59 EDT
From:    Ladynoire@a.......
Subject: Re: Vampire attraction

In a message dated 7/26/2000 8:29:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
MLCVamp@a....... writes:

<< and I would like to be able to see
 how "Ultra-Violet" turns out --  >>

What is Ultra Violet, I have never heard of it ?

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 27 Jul 2000 07:09:09 -0400
From:    "Brenda F. Bell" <webwarren@e.......>
Subject: Re: Attracted to vampires?

At 07:32 PM 7/26/00 -0400, Bons wrote why she wouldn't want to be a vampire:

>6)I visit my grandmother on a weekly basis... She's the most
>beautiful woman I know, and I have never wanted anything more than
>to be just like her - eighty-four and well-lived.

Well-stated, Bons! There is something to be said about the character of a
person who has lived through much, and is comfortable with passing it on to
others. The fine lines in the well-seasoned face, the gleam of wisdom in
the eyes that have seen the world reinvent itself, and the self-confidence
that can only come from having *survived* it all... these are things of
beauty, and I wonder that so many people have made themselves unable to
comprehend that aesthetic.

>4) Maybe it would be neat to see history unfold, civilizations rise and
fall. On the
>other hand, I feel like I've lived through some interesting moments of
history
>already...

The scariest thing for me in that sense was my 8th grade class receiving
the latest edition of the history text our teacher used, and seeing events
I had lived through described in it (towards the end of the book, of
course). Until then, "history" meant "events that transpired long before I
was born"; I now had to come to terms with the idea that at the tender age
of 13, I, too, had lived through "history".

>Vampires have to adapt to the changes in the culture that surrounds them
>for better or for worse if they don't want to draw attention.

I shouldn't have to say this, Bons -- but so to do we humans.
    --Consider the character of Katherine Barrington
        (FItP). She has never ceased to drive a 1936
        Auburn -- even if she has to search the world
        over to find one. That Auburn sticks out like a
        sore thumb -- it was the one holdout that allowed
        both Nick and Jeremy to track her down.
    --Consider any "woman of a certain age" who has not
        changed her clothing style, her makeup colors or
        techniques, or her hairstyle since she was a
        blushing bride. We see women like this on the street
        every day, in every city in the US. Not only do
        they look out-of-date, they usually look a lot
        older than they are, and sometimes they even look
        somewhat clownish. Rather than reminding us of what
        was good about the era of their youth, they look
        out of place, giving us the perception that perhaps
        they don't approve of time, or culture, having
        evolved since their salad days.
    --Consider how much your own wardrobe, hair style,
        colors, and makeup techniques have changed in the
        past decade...

>3) I hate moving already. Relocating my entire identity every 15-20 years is
>not remotely tempting.

Moving is a pain... inventing an identity is a pain. Living several
identities at once is ulcer-fodder -- especially if the people you must
relate to in each "identity" know each other...

Brenda F. Bell   webwarren@e.......   /nick TMana     IM: n2kye
Arctophile, computer addict, TREKker, stealth photographer...
        UA, PoCBS, FKPagan; Neon-Green GlowWorm
HugMistress of the Ger Bear Project https://members.tripod.com/~TMana/
Gerthering 3 Photos:  https://members.tripod.com/~TMana/gertherng/
Visit the Fiendish Glow at http://home.earthlink.net/~webwarren/glow/

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 26 Jul 2000 to 27 Jul 2000 - Special issue (#2000-225)
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