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FORKNI-L Digest - 10 Jul 2000 (#2000-204)

Mon, 10 Jul 2000

There are 17 messages totalling 709 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Flaming the Caddy? (was Knight School - Ep.000 - Nick Knight)
  2. Ben Bass Fan Club Auction
  3. <No subject given>
  4. Knight School - Ep.104 - Last Act (2)
  5. GWDFC Charity Auction announcement
  6. [Re: [FORKNI-L] FK fonts] (2)
  7. Preachin To The Choir
  8. [Re: [FORKNI-L] Knight School - Ep.104 - Last Act]
  9. [Re: [FORKNI-L] [Re: [FORKNI-L] FK fonts]]
 10. Nick's phone
 11. Religious vs. magical objects (2)
 12. Blitzing for the Knight- July 10-31!!
 13. [[FORKNI-L] Religious vs. magical objects]
 14. YKYBSTMTWFK

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Jul 2000 10:28:58 -0500
From:    Lauren <lauren1228@m.......>
Subject: Re: Flaming the Caddy? (was Knight School - Ep.000 - Nick Knight)

 I don't think we should flame the beautiful caddy at all! I like Nick's
caddy and always will. If you don't like Nicky's caddy you don't have to be
rude and insult it! Everyone has there own opions about his car and no need
to flame it. :( My opinion is that I love his car! It has the coolest
colors!! :O) It has plenty of trunk space! He needs trunk space! <g> And
lots more why I like Nick's car!
  Lauren

-----Original Message-----
From: Forever Knight TV show [mailto:FORKNI-L@l.......]On Behalf Of
DarkPNinja@a.......
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 2:59 PM
To: FORKNI-L@l.......
Subject: Re: Flaming the Caddy? (was Knight School - Ep.000 - Nick
Knight)

In a message dated Fri, 7 Jul 2000  9:06:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Libratsie@a....... writes:

I think we should REALLY flame the Caddy. I think the addition of purple
flames applied to the hood and sides would look kewl, to say the least!

ROTFLOL - with Nick and the boys in it singing "Greased Lightning"?

Hugs,
Ren

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Jul 2000 11:49:12 -0400
From:    jmtof@j.......
Subject: Ben Bass Fan Club Auction

Please check out our site for the latest auction scheduled to begin July
21st:

www.benbassfanclub.com

Our auction proceeds (100%) will be donated to JHCC (Johns Hopkins
Childrens Center).   We have a very special item graciously donated by
Susan Garrett, as well as scripts, tapes, etc.

Check it out!

Jean
BBFC President

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:12:23 -0400
From:    "Brenda F. Bell" <bfbell@d.......>
Subject: <No subject given>

At 02:06 AM 7/9/00 -0500, Janet Dornhoff wrote:

>Nick must have made Daddy proud for quite a while, if there were
>tales of Nicholas de Brabant in Joan's grandmother's time.

Even Nick said that for a while, he reveled in his vampiric
state. Probably starting some time within a few weeks, months, or years of
his conversion and lasting at least through the "Bad Blood" flashbacks
(Chevalier era, early 1600's) with the unhistoric Dauphin's abduction, and
his switch to killing "only the guilty" some time in the hundred to
hundred-and-fifty years following.

>I would have liked to see this come back in a later episode.  Maybe the
>one where Schanke had to hide out at the Raven.  I can just see Nick
>having to bring Janette out to the caddy to undo her command before
>they could get Schanke inside.

I'm not sure Schanke hypnotized that easily; I just think he decided to
ignore the symptoms because "vampires don't really exist". On another
note, Gary Farmer played Stonetree in such a way that I think Stonetree
has a very good idea of what Nick is, but knows better than to let on
directly -- or to put it differently, Stonetree is doing whatever he can
to help keep Nick's sunproof closet door closed.

>> Nick flashes back to Joan of Arc again, sometime later than the last time.
>
>And she remembered him, knew his name right off the bat, called him
>by his first name...was that familiar back then?

Depends on how common last names were at the time. Since Nick was
essentially exiled from the line of succession, he would not have been "de
Brabant" as *the* de Brabant, and I rather expect that it would have
been... impolitic at best... to give him a cadet title or a
"consolation" title or a "differenced" title (such as "Duke of
Windsor" might have been to the former King Edward VIII of England and
whatever-number of the rest of the UK).

If I am to believe French-language fiction, when last names were common,
calling someone by his/her first ("Christian") name was most certainly
*NOT* common. Even to fifty years or so ago, it was quite uncommon for a
first name or a familiar form of address (second-person familiar "tu" as
opposed to second-person formal or plural "vous" -- compare to Spanish
"tu" versus "usted", German "du" versus "ir", English "thou" versus
"you") to be used in the case of any but the most intimate of
relationships or when addressing a child or a domestic animal. (I'm
hedging a bit on that "fifty years ago", based on the following: my Junior
High and High School French teachers in the 'seventies noted that a great
deal of intimacy and personal relationship was required before "tu" was
generally used; on the other hand, I learned from fluent and native
speakers in the late 'seventies and early 'eighties that the familiar form
was quite common between good friends.)

>Could they have met and talked at other times between the two we saw?

If last names are common and the Maid of Orleans is familiar enough to
call Nick by his given name, either (1) you can bet on it or (2) she is
enough a messenger of G-d to be able to presume that level of intimacy or
(3) she is doing it to shock him, to ram a point home, etc.

>Don't blame him.  He doesn't know that all Nick did was play a joke
>on his partner and give one lady a little giggle.  He doesn't know that
>Nick went in there for refuge, he thinks it was subterfuge.

I don't think Nick deliberately played a joke on Schanke -- he was stuck
in there and Schanke seemed quite earnest about having his confession
heard. What was Nick to do -- say "Sorry, Schank -- it's me, holed up in
here against all the crosses and icons"? IMHO, he did his best to make
Schanke as comfortable as possible in his lapsed-Catholic situation.

>* And what other religious structures would Nick have trouble with?
>A synagogue?  A sweat lodge?  A forest glen that pagans use?  What
>about that corner preacher spouting fire and brimstone?  Would he
>or his soapbox affect a vampire?

We've noted that he has a problem with a menorah (AMPH?) and ritual Raven
knives ("Blackwing") -- which is interesting in light of the fact that he
tells Nat that the cross problem is based upon the cross being a symbol of
"[Christ,] the One True Light". That statement would seem to indicate that
(1) Christianity is *the* only true religion (is it John I:23 that's the
source of "I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Light..."?) and
(2) vampires' problems with religious artifacts should be restricted to
Christian religious artifacts.

Please note that Nick has no problem handling the Mayan religious ritual
artifacts in DK.

>* I remember reading in a biography once that, in her home town,
>Joan of Arc, the Maid of Orleans, was known as Jeanette...

(1) she was a peasant girl; they often didn't have last
names. (2) "Jeannette" is a diminutive of "Jeanne", her baptismal
name. Kind of like someone calling a Michael "Mike", or a Thomas
"Tommy" -- or since it's longer than the original, like the Yiddish/German
diminutive name endings ("Anne" becomes "Annele" or "Annikah",
"Eve" becomes "Evele", "Miriam" becomes "Mirele", etc.)

Brenda F. Bell   webwarren@e.......   /nick TMana     IM: n2kye
Arctophile, computer addict, TREKker, stealth photographer...
        UA, PoCBS, FKPagan; Neon-Green GlowWorm
HugMistress of the Ger Bear Project https://members.tripod.com/~TMana/
Gerthering 3 Photos:  https://members.tripod.com/~TMana/gertherng/
Visit the Fiendish Glow at http://home.earthlink.net/~webwarren/glow/

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:14:26 EDT
From:    Billie Lee <McCelt2000@a.......>
Subject: Re: Knight School - Ep.104 - Last Act

HI and good day to you all :>D

Me before: <<Oh, I don't know about Canada, but in the ER's I have worked in,
*Paddles* are used to shock someone >back to life <G>>>

To which Cousin Raven Breena (gosh I hope I spelled that correctly!) replied:

<<Lol!  maybe that's why it didn't work, the spinters from the pallet just
created more wounds and didn't help his heart...>>

LOL indeed, that paints quite a picture!!

<<Sorry, mistakes happen! >>

Yup, like half the time I can't spell........

All those who agree Raven is doing a wonderful job raise your hands <grinning
wildly and waving my hands around> :>D :>) :>O

Forever Yours, Billie-Lee
mccelt2000@a.......

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:21:40 -0400
From:    Allie Percy <allie@g.......>
Subject: GWDFC Charity Auction announcement

Posted with the listowner's permission:

Announcing the latest Geraint Wyn Davies Fan Club Internet Charity
Auction!  This is just a quick little auction for those who will be
attending the performance by Geraint Wyn Davies in "DYLAN THOMAS AND
SHAKESPEARE: IN THE ENVY OF SOME GREATNESS" in Wolfville, Nova Scotia
on September 3, 2000.

We have two FRONT-ROW SEATS to the performance up for auction to
benefit the Atlantic Theatre Festival.  The auction starts tonight
and ends on Thursday evening, so be sure to check it out soon!

   http://www.gwdfc.org/auction

You will find more information about the performance linked to the
auction page.

Thanks and good luck to all the auction participants!
--
Allie (allie@g.......)
GWDFC Charity Activities Team
--

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Jul 2000 11:30:04 CDT
From:    "Emily M.Hanson" <emily.m.hanson@u.......>
Subject: Re: [Re: [FORKNI-L] FK fonts]

A font for $100?  Are they nuts?  Why on earth would
anyone buy that when you can go to shareware sites and get fonts for free, or
buy font design software to make them yourself?

Just another thing we can attribute to the "Bill Gates/Microsoft" legacy, I
suppose -- now it's not just the software licenses you have to pay for,
it's every little thing.  That's why, for the most part, I don't rely on
other people's graphics for my websites.

Emily

[BJDFKFan@a....... wrote:

I haven't found a freeware/shareware version of this font, and the "Ultra
Bronzo" folks were selling it I think for over $100]

Emily M. Hanson

http://www.starbase-eprime.com

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Jul 2000 09:53:36 -0700
From:    Mysterie <Mysterie@b.......>
Subject: Re: Knight School - Ep.104 - Last Act

> 5.  How do you get a single remote to control your fireplace *and* your
> steel shutters? (A remote controlled fireplace?!?  I've never seen that
> anywhere else.)

    I have actually seen one of these things (the fireplace remote).  Once I
was looking through a Sharper Image catalogue or something similar I
remember seeing a remote controlled fireplace, it was very expensive.  I
forgot whether it was a mechanism that attached to gas outlet inside the
fireplace or a entire mechanism that replaced the gas tube that went in, all
I know was that you needed to get it professionally installed.  And with
universal remotes as long as you have to remote to begin with tada, instant
remote action for everything.
---------------------------------------
Mysterie
-What do you get with white hair and a bottle of purple dye?  .... a VERY
angry 2000 year old vampire.
Mysterie@b......./Yohkomano@e.......
http://www.fortunecity.com/tatooine/canaveral/53/foreverknight/

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:53:26 +0000
From:    Kristin <kris1228@s.......>
Subject: Re: Preachin To The Choir

Hi!

This sounds great! How did it go? I'm sorry I wasn't around to spread the
word, but I have just gotten back from our vacation. Any way I hope lots
were able to go to this for FK. :)

Kristin

-----Original Message-----
From: Forever Knight TV show [mailto:FORKNI-L@l.......]On Behalf Of
J Williams
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2000 2:34 AM
To: FORKNI-L@l.......
Subject: Preachin To The Choir

We have a slot at Shore Leave for Forever Knight videos. For those
onlist who are not familiar with Shore Leave, it is one of the largest
fan run SciFi conventions in the US.  It is held annually at the Hunt
Valley Marriott in Hunt Valley MD, and we have a slot in either the
Chase or Tack room for this Saturday night beginning at 7 PM.  If you
live in our around the area it would be so nice if you could be there.
For those that can't make it, remember to try and contact the convention
committees of conventions held near you to see if you can also get some
time and exposure for Forever Knight.  I know people have tried to do
this at Shore Leave before, but this is the first time we got a positive
response.  Don't get discouraged, keep trying!!!!

Ad Astra,
June....who hopes you are all enjoying a long holiday weekend, or at
least part of one :)

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:04:33 CDT
From:    "Emily M.Hanson" <emily.m.hanson@u.......>
Subject: Re: [Re: [FORKNI-L] Knight School - Ep.104 - Last Act]

Definately raising hand!  Great job, Cousin Raven!!!

One of these days, I'm going to have to get my hands on videos
or DVDs somewhere so I can actually see the first season for myself.
I didn't start watching til the middle of the second season,
and only caught a couple of 1st season re-runs.  This plot summary
idea was great, Billie.

Emily

Billie Lee <McCelt2000@a.......> wrote:

All those who agree Raven is doing a wonderful job raise your hands <grinning
wildly and waving my hands around> :>D :>) :>O

Forever Yours, Billie-Lee
mccelt2000@a.......

Emily M. Hanson

http://www.starbase-eprime.com

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:06:47 CDT
From:    "Emily M.Hanson" <emily.m.hanson@u.......>
Subject: Re: [Re: [FORKNI-L] [Re: [FORKNI-L] FK fonts]]

Oops sorry -- give me ten lashes with a wet noodle.  Thought
I pasted in that other e-mail address.

Emily

"Emily M.Hanson" <emily.m.hanson@u.......> wrote:
A font for $100?  Are they nuts?  Why on earth would
anyone buy that when you can go to shareware sites and get fonts for free, or
buy font design software to make them yourself?

Just another thing we can attribute to the "Bill Gates/Microsoft" legacy, I
suppose -- now it's not just the software licenses you have to pay for,
it's every little thing.  That's why, for the most part, I don't rely on
other people's graphics for my websites.

Emily

[BJDFKFan@a....... wrote:

I haven't found a freeware/shareware version of this font, and the "Ultra
Bronzo" folks were selling it I think for over $100]

Emily M. Hanson

http://www.starbase-eprime.com

Emily M. Hanson

http://www.starbase-eprime.com

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:41:02 -0500
From:    Nancy Kaminski <nancykam@m.......>
Subject: Re: [Re: [FORKNI-L] FK fonts]

> Emily M.Hanson wrote:

> A font for $100?  Are they nuts?  Why on earth would
> anyone buy that when you can go to shareware sites and get fonts for free, or
> buy font design software to make them yourself?

Professional fonts cannot be had for (usually) less than $100 (although there
are type packages at adobe.com which have a selection of their most popular
fonts for about $50). Free and shareware fonts are crude, have virtually no
kerning pairs, no expert sets, small caps, swash caps, ligatures, and other
things that typesetters need to create well-set text. These fonts almost always
Type 1 postscript fonts, that the high-end printers used by print service
bureaus (we ain't talking Kinko's here) interpret very well.

For instance, the last font I bought (on behalf of an organization, to be used
as their corporate typeface) was Adobe Kepler, a multiple master font, for $179.
Bronzo is just such a professional typeface.

That's not to say that the shareware fonts aren't okay for home printing. But
it's sort of like photography. You get great shots with that disposable camera,
but the guy who shoots ads for national ad campaigns uses a mult-thousand dollar
Rollei.

> Just another thing we can attribute to the "Bill Gates/Microsoft" legacy, I
> suppose -- now it's not just the software licenses you have to pay for,
> it's every little thing.  That's why, for the most part, I don't rely on
> other people's graphics for my websites.

Nah, not really. It's a matter of buying the tool for the job. Pro jobs need pro
fonts for good results.

Nancy Kaminski
who likes to play with the *really good* fonts
nancykam@m.......

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Jul 2000 13:55:31 EDT
From:    Wolfy Knight <Wolfy380@a.......>
Subject: Re: Nick's phone

In a message dated 7/9/00 5:25:17 PM Central Daylight Time,
raven@n....... writes:

<< Yes, but doesn't Alyce look his number up in the phone book to get his
 address? >>
yes, i was going to mention that...

~~wolfy

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Jul 2000 11:24:16 -0700
From:    Les GS <looscann@s.......>
Subject: Religious vs. magical objects

At 12:12 PM 7/10/00 -0400, Brenda F. Bell wrote:

>We've noted that he has a problem with a menorah (AMPH?) and ritual Raven
>knives ("Blackwing") -- which is interesting in light of the fact that he
>tells Nat that the cross problem is based upon the cross being a symbol of
>"[Christ,] the One True Light".

He didn't use the title, "Christ." <g> He did say "the One True Light," and
while the cross may be a symbol of it, he didn't say it was the *only*
symbol of it.  Other religions have symbolic representations of "The Light."

>That statement would seem to indicate that
>(1) Christianity is *the* only true religion <snip> and
>(2) vampires' problems with religious artifacts should be restricted to
>Christian religious artifacts.

But as you noted above, Nick's problems with religious artifacts were *not*
restricted to those of Christianity.  I don't think the knives' religious
symbolism was ever explained, though if they were viewed as symbols of
healing Powers, which "cut away" the "darkness" from those dis-eased, it
might explain why they bothered him.  The menorah, I've been given to
understand, is not a religious symbol in the manner the cross is.  Maybe
that it is used in "light-bringing" religious rites makes Nick sensitive to
it.  (Or maybe the writers didn't do enough research. <g>)

Divia, at least, was also controlled by the symbol of the Egyptian sun god.

>Please note that Nick has no problem handling the Mayan religious ritual
>artifacts in DK.

There's a difference between an object which is used in a religious rite
and an object which is perceived as a symbolic representation of a
religious belief.  (Would Nick be sensitive to a communion cup?  I don't
know actually, as I don't know what sort of religious symbolism it has.  If
it is seen as a tool, however venerated, in a religious rite, rather than a
religious symbol in and of itself, I don't think it would.)  The Mayans may
not have viewed the cups as religious symbols, but rather as magical tools.
 Nick's willingness to use them tends to make this likely.  While Nick
might have felt all right about using a magical object, I doubt if he would
about using a religious symbol, as actually using it implies a belief in
that particular spiritual/religious system.  Using magic only implies you
believe in magic, as a way to manipulate the world around you. <g>

Les
 Unnamed
  LoosCanN@s.......  ~ http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/looscann/ ~
UF UnFAQ - http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/1228/
     "The truth is rarely pure, and never simple." ~ Oscar Wilde

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Jul 2000 14:29:03 +0000
From:    Kristin <kris1228@s.......>
Subject: Blitzing for the Knight- July 10-31!!

Hello Knight Buddies!

It looks like these blitzes we have been doing are getting some attention!
So we at KtK, are going to turn them into a monthly routine. This month we
are still focusing on the two main powers, Tristar and Sci-fi.

Its going to be a double dose of e-mails from each of you the fans that
would love to not only have FK back on Sci-fi's schedule, but want to make
sure everyone knows that we are want more FK with the original cast in new
episodes and or movies!! So, what do you say? Are you ready to sit down,
take that few minutes and send off two e-mails? It could make all the
difference in the world!

Remember, say a little or say a lot, but say it!! We can make more FK
happen!!!

July 10th, through July 31st, we are asking everyone to blitz both
feedbacks!!! For these couple weeks, you can re-use the e-mails you did
before, or write new ones. They can be long, or as short as just saying,
"Bring Back Forever Knight."

Important: Bonnie Hammer (Sci-fi) seems to think we'll take just ANY vampire
series. WRONG!! In the e-mails be sure to say we don't want the new
"Ultra-Violet" vampire series! We have to absolutely in the next blitz make
sure that everyone says something in their next batch of e-mails that we are
not willing to substitute one vampire series for another!! Everyone should
make it clear that we want FK!! If "Ultra-violet is to be part of the
schedule, fine, but that does not change our minds in any way shape or form
about the show we DO want! Forever Knight!!

ALSO REMEMBER!! Sci-fi will be changing its schedule around again in the
fall.... lets make sure that we get Forever Knight on!!!

Sci-Fi's E-mail: feedback@w.......

Sony/Tristar Mail Form: http://www.spe.sony.com/spe/help_feedback_index.html

When e-mailing TriStar,(especially) give as much personal info as you
can...rather than just an e-mail name. A bit more personal carries more
weight with TPTB.

There is also a button, I made, which you can post on your websites to
spread the word about the blitzes. Have it link to my save fk page.

Long Live the Knight!
Kristin
http://members.xoom.com/forever_nick/Forever_Knight

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Jul 2000 13:38:40 CDT
From:    "Emily M.Hanson" <emily.m.hanson@u.......>
Subject: Re: [[FORKNI-L] Religious vs. magical objects]

Oh, yeah, especially considering that he was raised in a strict
Catholic home.

It depends on your version of the Christian faith as to how symbolic
the cup is.  Some Christains beleive the rite actually transforms
the wine into Jesus' blood

Anyway, with Nick's background and being the angsty vamp that he is,
would definately be affected by it, probably as much as touching a cross,
or maybe the blessed wine would even affect him like holy water.

Emily

Les GS <looscann@s.......> wrote:
At 12:12 PM 7/10/00 -0400, Brenda F. Bell wrote:

(Would Nick be sensitive to a communion cup?  I don't
know actually, as I don't know what sort of religious symbolism it has.  Les
 Unnamed

Emily M. Hanson

http://www.starbase-eprime.com

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:38:33 EDT
From:    Laudon1965@a.......
Subject: Re: Religious vs. magical objects

In a message dated 07/10/2000 11:22:58 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
looscann@s....... writes:

<< The Mayans may
 not have viewed the cups as religious symbols, but rather as magical tools.
>>

To many, but not all practicioners, Magic is a part of their religion, and
the objects used therein have been consecrated and charged, and would hold a
great deal of power.  I see no reason to assume it would not have been so to
the Mayans, to whom undoubtedly what we call "magic" was a manifestation of
their beliefs.

<<  While Nick might have felt all right about using a magical object, I
doubt if he would about using a religious symbol, as actually using it
implies a belief in
 that particular spiritual/religious system.  Using magic only implies you
 believe in magic, as a way to manipulate the world around you. <g> >>

To the unethical or untutored, perhaps it is so, but to those with faith and
respect for the forces of Nature, using magic to "manipulate" nature, events
or people is anathema.  To the serious and respectful, it is a way of
honoring the forces of Nature, a way of marking the cycles of life, and
bringing oneself into harmony with the forces of Nature.

Laurie of the Isles
FKPagan

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:57:38 EDT
From:    Laudon1965@a.......
Subject: Re: YKYBSTMTWFK

In a message dated 07/10/2000 5:00:12 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
clarkcindy@e....... writes:

<< You know you've been spending too much time with FK when you're walking past
 the food-court in the mall and see a stand for Uncle's Waffles and start
 snickering so loudly with repressed laughter that other people start looking
 at you like you need to join Billie Lee (wave) in Re-hab.   >>

Well if snickering to oneself in public is grounds for being fitted for one
of those jackets with wrap-around sleeves, I'll be in there with you you and
Billie-Lee.  It'll be fun, we can have an FK mini-con. <g>  Hey if we're
already enrolled in the Laughing Academy, what more can they do to us?  <G>

Laurie of the Isles

------------------------------

End of FORKNI-L Digest - 10 Jul 2000 (#2000-204)
************************************************


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