File: "FORKNI-L LOG9606D" Part 20 TOPICS: Languages Nick speaks (Was Re: YKYB...) Bricks Vegetable vampires? (3) FORKNI-L Digest - 18 Jun 1996 to 19 Jun 1996 - Special issue (2) Vegetable Vampire SPOILER: LK (Tracy) Lyrics-Thanks Musicals Greyhounds Holy water "Second-string" episodes (2) Blackwing: Did they? Me Again-HELP! SPOILER: FEVER; drinking beverages CD review suggestion, zine information question Why kangaroos? FK Charity Totals FK on www. Did you know . . .? YKYB...or you're just very tired! (SPOILERS: HF, FI, LK) My Nick (long) Nick and Nat; romanticism Help in retrieving story parts No Mail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 09:32:12 -0700 From: Elizabeth Ann Lewis <lizbet@p.......> Subject: Languages Nick speaks (Was Re: YKYB...) At 7:31 AM 6/26/96, Dvixen Vidi Vici wrote: >On another note: >Is there any established list of languages that Nick speaks? >English, French, German (which eps) Chinese (which dialect, which eps) Spanish (SoB), and what language was he speaking to the child in Dark Night? Probably Vietnamese as well (Can't Run, Can't Hide). >I'd also be inclined to inculde Gaelic, since in Queen of Harps, I doubt >they would be speaking English. Small quibble, it would have been Welsh, not Gaelic. Welsh and Gaelic belong to two different branches of the Celtic language group. And a well-born Welshwoman of about 1220 would probably know how to speak French. Lizbet ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Proud Member of the Mercenary Guild lizbet@p....... ~~ Lizbetann@a....... ~~ Ravenette of the New Order ~ Cleopatra ~ Knightie/NatPacker/N&NPacker with Cousinly tendencies and the faintest of leanings toward Vanquera-ism ~~ Arnyd yw Ewyll hyd yw ~~ Listowner, Middle Ages Life ~~ http://members.aol.com/Lizbetann/mypage.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 09:57:16 -0700 From: "Nina A. Smith" <snsa@i.......> Subject: Bricks Nick is labeled "a brick" here and there, generally with the implication that he acts as dumb as one sometimes, a brick being thick and dense and so on ... But after a childhood partly spent with some notable old British books for children (Edith Nesbit, anyone?), I recall another meaning for the term. Apparently, to call someone "a brick" in the early part of this century could be a way of calling him not thick, but SOLID -- a good, loyal friend to be counted on. Anyone else like this? nina **** "Hillel said: Be of the students of Aaron; love peace and pursue peace..." Pirke Avot 1:12 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 09:57:21 -0700 From: "Nina A. Smith" <snsa@i.......> Subject: Vegetable vampires? >Now on a side note... how many of you are old enough to remember the >Vegetable Vampire? If you do recall this, can you name the actor who >played the role? If you can remember post it and if you are correct, >you will have my undying respect. (Yeah, like that really means a lot!). Uh ... you mean Vincent the Vegetable Vampire from "The Electric Company," played by Morgan Freeman? (My goodness, I AM getting on in years.) Those of you who have or are small kids might also recall the notorious vampire rabbit Bunnicula. Don't even ask. nina **** "Hillel said: Be of the students of Aaron; love peace and pursue peace..." Pirke Avot 1:12 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 11:40:18 +0200 From: katrinka <STUKENDALCA@m.......> Subject: Re: FORKNI-L Digest - 18 Jun 1996 to 19 Jun 1996 - Special issue well, i had to say some thing about the rememgtion steele thing. laura and remy didn't do it actually until the very last shot, even then, all you saw was steele taking laura up the steps. but the marrage bit, where they didn't consumante the relationship was frustrating, and brosnons po'd ness was shown on screen. i'm afraid that will happen to fk if it comes back. steele was a good show, then they changed in in the last season. and they characters weren't reconizable. mr clean cut steele studdenly became sleezy. and i hated that, i really did. i'm afraid that if they bring fk back, we won't be able to recognize our beloved nick. i looked at hte save mst3k site, it said victory is ours. wouldn't that be nice if it happened to us too? stranger things have happened! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 11:43:08 +0200 From: katrinka <STUKENDALCA@m.......> Subject: Re: FORKNI-L Digest - 18 Jun 1996 to 19 Jun 1996 - Special issue what's the deal, today's the 26th and i just got this!!!!!!!! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 13:13:52 -0400 From: "Margaret L. Carter" <MLCVamp@a.......> Subject: Re: Vegetable Vampire There was a Vincent the Vegetable Vampire in a musical spot on The Electric Company (old public TV show, envisioned as "Sesame Street" for bigger kids). But I have no idea who the actor was. He was a handsome black man vaguely reminiscent of William Marshall (Blacula). ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 13:13:51 -0400 From: "Margaret L. Carter" <MLCVamp@a.......> Subject: SPOILER: LK (Tracy) I finally re-watched LK a couple of days ago. * * * * * * * * * * * In the shooting scene, I definitely think the bullet that hit Tracy (one of them, at least) went through Nick's body. Therefore I could accept her rising from the grave as a vampire, given some regeneration time. But what practical use would she be as a character? It would be fun to watch Nick guide her through the vampire life (the Perky Bloodsucker), but her revival couldn't be explained to the outside world, so she couldn't return as his partner. Suppose his blood healed her to the extent that she revived on the way down to the hospital morgue? She could be "tainted" like Liam but still mortal, and her return to life as a working cop would not be impossible -- it would be seen as a "miraculous recovery" and the report of her death explained as a lapse in competence on the part of the staff. Still, I'm not sure I want to see her death annulled. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 11:47:50 -0400 From: Carla Pickering <carla@e.......> Subject: Lyrics-Thanks Thanks everyone who sent the lyrics. I really appreciate it. By the way. I *may* <read: I really shouldn't be doing this> be adopting a rescued greyhound in August. Suggestions for names-magical, mystical, earthcenterd FK friendly names welcome..... :-)) Carla at Crowhawwk etc. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 10:30:38 -0700 From: "Toni C. Holm" <tch@w.......> Subject: Musicals Diane E. said: >Just what we needed! A fun and frivolous thread! <snip wonderful "Holiday Inn" casting> >Can you tell I like musicals? <g> I'll bite: Guys & Dolls GWD as Nathan Detroit (Frank Sinatra) Nigel as Skye Masterson (Marlon Brando) John Kapelos as Nicely-Nicely (Stubby Kaye) (in a checkered vest) Catherine Disher as Nathan's perennial fiancee, Miss Adelaide (Vivian Blaine) Deb as Sarah Brown (Jean Simmons) (Looking chic even in a Salvation Army uniform -- as did Jean Simmons) All singing - all dancing! -Toni <tch@w.......> ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 13:23:09 +0500 From: "J.S.Levin/Stormsinger" <wabbit@e.......> Subject: Re: Greyhounds Carla at Crowhawwk says: >By the way. I *may* <read: I really shouldn't be doing this> be adopting a >rescued greyhound in August. Suggestions for names-magical, mystical, >earthcenterd FK friendly names welcome..... :-)) Knightwind -- to be "nicknamed" <G> "Windy"? This has an advantage of being a gender-neutral name, too. Or Niknat Or Crosswind Or Javlin I can think of more, if you want ;) Storm -- wabbit@e....... (J.S.Levin/Stormsinger) Vaquera, Dark Knightie, UF, SKL; Gangrel, Scrapper Their canon met my imagination and was outgunned. If you practice being fictional, you discover that "characters" are as real as people with bodies and heartbeats... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 14:50:16 -0500 From: Stephanie Babbitt <stephanie.babbitt@g.......> Subject: Re: Holy water Ray H. wrote: >I can only recall two eps where holy water played a part. One was Sons >of Belial, where the priest sprinkles holy water on Nick as part of the >Exorcism.<snip> The other was the episode with the vampire victim who >"survived" and became a vampire hunter (Bad Blood?). In Hunted, the killer "bombs" Nick from above with a jar of holy water. The jar shatters next to him and presumably splashes him--at least, he flinches away pretty convincingly. Only after the jar shatters does the killer explain that it's holy water, so its effect on Nick must be physical and not psychosomatic. Stephanie B. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 15:03:57 -0400 From: Jean Graham <JeanB7@a.......> Subject: Re: "Second-string" episodes Amy R. <akr@n.......> said: >"Faithful Followers" is the least of the four, in mho, but I still found a >lot in it. The most beautiful scene in this episode, for me, is the very end, where Nat so sagely says something to the effect of, "Anyone who tells you you can have everything you want probably wants everything you have." And Nick, with his back to her, is gazing out at the near-dawn and his reply is no longer referring to the cult, but to himself: "And once you've given them everything, you're nothing." At which point he presses the remote and closes out the sun. Ouch. >"Capitol Offense"... LC promises not to hurt the nun... and goes to >sleep telling Nick to *trust* him. Then, of course, he goes and kills the >woman, and presumes to tell Nick that her friendship was false... Definitely one of Lacroix's cruellest moments. But also very moving: Nick's sobbing response to the taunt that her friendship with him was based on a deception is "So what if it was?" Ouch again. You really hated LC in this one (well, I did). >I found little in the contemporary plot of "Beyond the Law,"... > Do you think Nick is the one who told the press? Or do you think it > was a member of the Senator's staff? From the look on Nick's face, I'd say it was him. No question. >"The Code" must be one of the top three Schanke episodes... Well, check out who wrote the script. Could explain why! :-) I liked this one too, tho, precisely because it *did* give us so much more insight into Schanke's character. Yeah, the flashback's a bit weak. (Not to mention unlikely -- where the heck did Nick go to get out of the sun in the middle of nowhere in the Arizona desert??) And this isn't the only ep where we saw Nick & co. partaking of alcoholic beverages without any apparent problem (well, at least until the poison took effect in "The Code.") They're also drinking (ale?) in the "Fever" flashback -- or at least they're pretending to. And there are other cases (besides Janette's favorite little wine mixture) in episodes I can't remember the titles of offhand. Interesting, tho. Don't think I've ever run into vampires who can imbibe anywhere else. (It's usually the "I don't drink... wine!" approach.) But then, Nick chokes on Nat's single malt in C&C (was that the booze or the company?) and on the whatever-it-was in 1966. I suppose this has already been thoroughly hashed to death on the list, tho... Well, that certainly went off on a weird tangent... --Jean Graham (JeanB7@a.......) "There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music... and cats." --Albert Sweitzer ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 15:08:22 -0400 From: Tammy Stephanie Davis <tsd@u.......> Subject: Re: Blackwing: Did they? On Wed, 26 Jun 1996, Tammy Stephanie Davis wrote: > On Wed, 19 Jun 1996, Judith Freudenthal wrote: > > > Tammy Stephanie Davis wrote that she didnt' think Marian undid any of Nick's > > shirt buttons. > > > > I do have to disagree there. Several other people seem to think she did. I > > believe she did when she was "sensing" him. > > No she didn't. I've seem the scene several times. > Oops. I meant to say that I've *seen* the scene several times. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 15:54:53 -0400 From: Lisa Knust <lmknus@m.......> Subject: Me Again-HELP! Hello all! Yes, I finally got my hands on another computer. You've probably all forgotten me by now, but I used to be a regular "Help!" crier, and I'm doing it again. I've been off-list since the beginning of May or so when I had to leave school. I would be VERY grateful if any kind soul would perhaps be able to update me on what's been going on since then. I know it's a lot to ask, but then again, I also know how great you guys are. :) Happy to be back (if only for a short time), Lisa Knust lmknus@m....... (don't let the addy fool you, I'm a NYer trapped in RI, Brown to be exact, this time!) "For the Blood is the Life..." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 16:07:51 -0400 From: Allison Percy <percy91@w.......> Subject: Re: "Second-string" episodes Jean Graham <JeanB7@a.......> said about "Faithful Followers": > Nick, with his back to her, is gazing out at the near-dawn and his reply is > no longer referring to the cult, but to himself: "And once you've given them > everything, you're nothing." At which point he presses the remote and closes > out the sun. Ouch. This is one of those scenes in which many of us just want to give him a big hug and tell him it'll all be okay. <sniff> (Hey, you over there, rolling your eyes -- quit it! I *like* Nick when he's pathetic!) Re: The Code: > where the heck did Nick go to get out of the sun in the > middle of nowhere in the Arizona desert?? Maybe he buried himself in the sand, like Vachon and the Inca buried themselves in the dirt in Black Buddha? Obviously this is not the preferred way for a vampire to spend the day, but I'm sure it's better than going up in smoke. ;^) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Allison Percy, Knightie & Chief Bunny percy91@w....... __o Pedal for Forever Knight! Support the charity bike tour! _`\<,_ E-mail me to find out how to donate and/or join the ride. (*)/ (*) http://assets.wharton.upenn.edu/~percy91/FKtour.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 14:57:31 +0500 From: "J.S.Levin/Stormsinger" <wabbit@e.......> Subject: SPOILER: FEVER; drinking beverages Jean Graham notes: >They're also drinking (ale?) in the "Fever" flashback -- or at least they're >pretending to. Actually, Jean what I assumed from that scene was that they were in the 17th century London version of the Raven!! Especially since Nick goes ahead and brings the young doctor (I've blanked on his name) across right then and there with nothing more than Lacroix stepping between them and the door. So I assumed that, whatever was in those tankards, blood was at least part of the mixture. Storm -- wabbit@e....... (J.S.Levin/Stormsinger) Vaquera, Dark Knightie, UF, SKL; Gangrel, Scrapper Their canon met my imagination and was outgunned. If you practice being fictional, you discover that "characters" are as real as people with bodies and heartbeats... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 12:28:07 -0800 From: John Soo-Hoo <galahad!jsoohoo@n.......> Subject: Re: Vegetable vampires? >>Now on a side note... how many of you are old enough to remember the >>Vegetable Vampire? If you do recall this, can you name the actor who >>played the role? If you can remember post it and if you are correct, >>you will have my undying respect. (Yeah, like that really means a lot!). >Uh ... you mean Vincent the Vegetable Vampire from "The Electric Company," >played by Morgan Freeman? (My goodness, I AM getting on in years.) Those of >you who have or are small kids might also recall the notorious vampire >rabbit Bunnicula. >Don't even ask. YES NINA! You are absolutely correct on all counts!!! Is the "Electric Company" still around, I wonder? For those of you are wondering what on earth this is all about, I'll explain. About 20-25 years ago, there was a show dedicated to educating children. It was a show simliar to Sesame Street only with a bit of more flair and a touch of Rock Music. (In fact I think it followed right after Sesame Street back then)... The only names I can recall in the show are Morgan Freeman and Rita Moreno ("HEY YOU GUYS!"). One of the shows had a skit with Morgan Freeman dressed in a Dracula costume singing a song (if someone can post or email me the words to the song I would be tickled pink) that basically said who he was (Vincent the Vegetable Vampire) and it continues him singing the names of various vegetables, with Vincint walking about in a field of veggies! At the time I thought it a little scary, but for some unknown reason that image burned in to my mind. And as I grew older I found it funny and immediately recall it everytime I see Morgan Freeman. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 17:37:44 EDT From: Mary Anne Espenshade <mae@a.......> Subject: CD review suggestion, zine information question Has anyone else suggested reviewing the FK CD to some of the SF sites out there that do reviews? I suggested it to SciFi Weekly (http://www.scifi.com/sfw/). I'm also going to send email to David Hirsch at Starlog (DHirsch918@a.......), suggesting it for his monthly Audiolog column. If enough of us wrote in, maybe that would generate some more general publicity. Zines question - has anyone gotten any of the many FK zines put out by Tracy Essam and the FK Fan Club of Canada? I've seen an ad for around 20 titles, either available or in production, but I'd like some impressions from people who've read them before I order any. -- Mary Anne Espenshade mae@a....... "What time is it? What day is it? What century is it?" -- me, after the first Weekend with Ger ps - Have FUN, all of you headed out to the *second* Weekend! Wish I was going too! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 17:36:48 EDT From: Lisa McDavid <D020214@v.......> Subject: Why kangaroos? Most of us know by now that a kangaroo figures in the Blooper Script. I was just flipping channels, and came across Kraft's Creatures on PBS. The producer is FK alumnus Richard Borchiver. It's a nature show -- the episode just happened to be "Kickboxing Kangaroos." Now, this may be just coincidence, but I wonder. I do wonder ... Was this why the kangaroo in the blooper script? Not, of course, that I have any evidence that would hold up in a kangaroo court. Cousin Lisa -- "That will be trouble." Chief Watcher for Cats, McGregor Lisa McDavid mcdavid-lisa@s....... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 17:46:37 EDT From: Mary Anne Espenshade <mae@a.......> Subject: Re: FK Charity Totals Leslie Plummer had asked about the other FK charities: >BTW, any idea on amts raised by the fan clubs? I just got the latest newsletter from Ger's fan club and the total raised last year for Children's Hospital was $10,200! Over $6000 of that was raised at the first Weekend. So I hope those of you going out this weekend are taking plenty of money for the auction! See if you can top what we did. :-) -- Mary Anne Espenshade mae@a....... "What time is it? What day is it? What century is it?" -- me, after the first Weekend with Ger ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 15:01:40 -0700 From: Marg Rothschild <margr@a.......> Subject: Re: Vegetable vampires? On Wed, 26 Jun 1996, John Soo-Hoo wrote: > YES NINA! You are absolutely correct on all counts!!! Is the "Electric > Company" still around, I wonder? For those of you are wondering what > on earth this is all about, I'll explain. Boy, that brings back memories! <going into flashback mode> Ooops, excuse me. Nope, at least it's not shown here, but wish it'd come back. I miss that show! Marg Rothschild, Cousin margr@i....... or margr@a....... (sig in process) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 15:30:50 -0700 From: Marg Rothschild <margr@a.......> Subject: FK on www. Did you know . . .? I decided to pay visit to the www. today. We have 4 main search engines in Netscape here at ASU West. Well, I started with the Magellan search engine and typed in "Forever Knight" Did you know that there are 21018 FK results?! Has Sony tried this yet? Obviously not because if they did, then they'd know that we're not just a mere bunch. Marg Rothschild, Cousin margr@i....... or margr@a....... (sig in process) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 12:34:33 +0000 From: Sandy Martino <martino@m.......> Subject: Re: YKYB...or you're just very tired! "Lisa J. Patnaude" <KnightKeep@a.......> wrote: {when} you click on the "What's Hot" button within AOL > and scroll down the list. At the very bottom of the list is the title: > "Everything about Cows and Then Some"...And you think, so > this is Nick's new job. > Well, I just read a blurb for SPANISH lollipops that are currently all the rage in Hawaii (though I haven't looked for them on Maui). They come in a variety of souvenir novelty containers...the most popular one is...A COW! Agghhh... Anyone else seen them? Should the Hawaii FKers go shopping? Sandy Martino martino@m....... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 16:02:05 -0700 From: Amy R. <akr@n.......> Subject: (SPOILERS: HF, FI, LK) My Nick (long) (This will include spoilers for HF and FI and LK.) (Spoiler Space provided by this observation: "The Human Factor" will finally come out of spoiler-protection next week, during which week I'll be in California, two states away from my computer. People from FKSPOILR may note a certain irony in my not being here for the next round of HF. Some may even breathe a sigh of relief. My opinions on the ep may have changed a good deal -- hi, Cynthia -- but that only means there is more to say, doesn't it? <g>) Felicia Bollin wrote: >But: Have we had a scene where Nick turns to Nat and admits fairly plainly, >that he had a time where he unabashedly *enjoyed* being a vampire? First, I have to disagree that there was ever a time Nick "unabashedly enjoyed being a vampire." Excepting only the flashbacks of "Blood Money" and "Fallen Idols," I cannot think of a single instance where Nick bit someone without almost immediate remorse -- and both of those were followed by remorse in time. Once Nick saw himself through Andre's eyes, I doubt he was ever again able to rationalize his "needs" as he did in the Pit. Yes, there have been times when the moral dilemma was less fierce, and yes, there have been times when he was rationalizing at full throttle, but I believe Nick has *always* been haunted by the impression that what he was doing was wrong. He tried to save Liselle (TG); he asked Amalia to stop coming to him (CL); he had to try to talk to the poacher (Hunted) where LC or Janette would have simply drained him. Nick wanted to go back across that first night, and though he adapted to preserve his sanity, I think the phrase "unabashedly enjoyed" is too strong for the Nick of *any* era. Approaching the question from that view, however, have we ever heard Nick explicitly tell Nat that for four-hundred years he did not fight what he was, and in fact embraced it? No. Never *explicitly*. However, I believe that is due to three things: 1) Nick's intense shame over what he did and was, 2) Nick's self-absorption -- it simply hasn't occurred to him that Nat doesn't know, 3) she has been told *implicitly* on any number of occasions, most blatantly with the lovely example Sharon cited from Francesca. As we've re-watched GVP recently, I think the speed and intensity of Nick's addiction, and Nat's correction of his "feeding" to "killing," also reveal the hold the vampiric existence has had on him, and her understanding of it. In short, I have not heard Nick tell her, but I find it hard to believe she doesn't know. Nat is too smart for that (and I'll address the idea of Nick as her "blind spot" in a moment). >does she _really_ know the depth of his affinity for the vampiric life? Again, I don't believe "affinity" is the best word for Nick's situation. If you would like to take Urs as an example, and claim she's never killed, then I suppose it is possible to set up a hierarchy of "affinities" for the traditional vampiric existence. I don't think that's valid, but you could do it. I think Nick *is* a vampire, and therefore is fighting the powerful instincts of a vampire. But he has been on cow blood for a century, and killed "only the guilty" for three centuries before that. I do not believe Nick's "affinity" is stronger than his will to resist. (Go watch some first season episodes... come on... pleeeeease? <g>) >in order to thrive. If LaCroix gave up and went away, would this lessen a >lot of the personal urgency Nick and Nat feel about the cure/each other? Isn't that question answered by the first season? The three years (minus DK 1 & 2) without LC are some of the happiest and most productive of Nick's life. There was little romantic attraction between N&N, and no urgency, but with every second episode, it seemed, Nick became more human, more mortal. Then LC came back, and everything in Nick's quest began to fail. Is that LC's fault? Not directly. Nick is responsible for himself, and I blame him for his own backsliding, for not overcoming the way LC had conditioned him to low self-esteem and hopelessness. Nevertheless, and even though I like LC and admire what he brings to the show, I agree with Sandra that it was LC's reappearance which has put the breaks on Nick's cure -- not to mention his personal growth. >If it is fraught with danger and uncertainty, where Nat never knows _quite_ >where she stands with Nick because he's running off to some other female, >is this automatically "better"? That is phrased very provocatively, and I think you probably know that, Felicia. Obviously, if Nick had a commitment to Nat (which, until third season -- and that's debatable -- he does not) then his behavior would be inexcusable. It would be neglectful and even emotionally abusive. However, I maintain that *from Nick's pov* the Nick and Nat romantic relationship exists between MBIAV and LK *only*, and in that time period, excepting while he was possessed by a demon, he never once approached another woman romantically or sexually. I'm a big BATB fan -- before I discovered FK, it was the show I loved most in the history of television. I don't think a network has produced anything of that quality since. And I enjoyed -- very much -- the distinction BATB proper made between love and sex. This tension exists in FK, and is explored in FK, through Nick and Nat. It is a set of storylines which the show would lack if there was nothing romantic between N&N, and the show would be the poorer for it. I don't believe -- excepting "extraordinary circumstances" -- any mortal can survive sex with any FK vampire. I know LC can "sip" from children without killing them (just LC, mind you: Nick asked "which *one* of you has been feeding on the children in CRCH) and I know Nick can prolong and postpone the death of people he feeds on (CL and FI), but Janette is the single example of a vampire whose partner didn't die at her teeth -- and her situation was so unusual that *she became mortal*. Janette says she didn't kill him because his blood "warmed her heart" -- she doesn't know why, scientifically, Robert survived, but she believes it was his love for her, as she believes it was the depth of her love for him, and thus the anguish of his loss, that brought her the rest of the way back across. In short, no mortal survives sex with an FK vampire without True Love (and/or the scientific theories -- pregnancy, genetic factor, etc). For me, this is a powerful part of Nick's story, and it conditions the acceptable definitions of love and romance on the show. (Yes, I think Nat would have had a better shot in LK if Nick actually had made love to her -- Nat does love him, and sex was part of Janette's equation.) There is a poignancy in the fact that Nick *cannot* love a mortal physically -- anything beyond intellect and emotion would be fatal. What I'm groping toward here is that Nat knows exactly where she stands with Nick. It isn't where she'd like to be standing, and MBIAV and LK are her two attempts to change the situation, but she is as aware of the situation as Janette is -- I think both Nat and Janette know a lot more about what each other feel for Nick, and he for them, than Nick does. The key, though, is that Nat is *waiting* for Nick. She is not being emotionally abused by him, because there is no relationship to abuse. Nick, in and of himself, is not her blind spot; she knows who and what he is -- both the vampire from the back of the Raven in FtB, and the "good man" who "always tries to do the right thing," as she describes him in HF. It has been three years since Nat's last date, a date which almost resulted in her being killed. I think that is a fact which deserves more attention. *** Amy, Lady of the Knight (akr@n.......) *** Knightie, Fleur-Booster, Light Cousin, Faithful ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 17:38:30 -0500 From: Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......> Subject: Re: Nick and Nat; romanticism At 12:05 PM 6/26/96 -0400, Felicia Bollin wrote: >To all those who might think that Nick and Nat's postulated love is somewhat >"truer" because it came "harder" .... If it is fraught with danger and >uncertainty, where Nat never knows _quite_ where she stands with Nick because >he's running off to some other female, is this automatically "better"? No, of course it isn't. I think part of the problem here is we're trying too hard to identify FK with reality. FK has metaphors for reality; it _isn't_ reality. In FK, Nick is a vampire, and that keeps him away from Natalie. As far as "The Fix" is concerned, I think the theme had to do with someone who wasn't ready for commitment; that's the real-world connection. And in the real world, if you're ready for commitment, and the guy isn't, my advice is to not wait around too long for him to get ready. But in the story world of FK, we don't know if Nick would have soon been ready for commitment if the cure in "The Fix" had worked, once he got over the initial shock of suddenly being mortal and had time to calm down and adjust. But in FK, we also see a relationship that has a lot of comfort and ease between Nick and Natalie. We see a friendship that to me _looks_ like it has the special quality to work as a romantic relationship. In the story world, though, Nick is a vampire, so the friendship can't get to the point of being a romantic relationship. By "romantic" in this case, I mean a relationship where the love and the sex are entwined. In the story world of FK, I can't do better than to say it _looks_ that way. I wish I could. In the real world though, I think successful romantic relationships are based on similar personalities, similar values, and both people's commitments to each other. Like everyone else, my opinion comes from where I've been and what I've done and from where I am now. I've been in a lot of places that seemed really ridiculous when I looked back on them, and I've been in a good place for the last fifteen or sixteen years. Margie (treeleaf@i.......) N&NPacker Cousin of the Knight Save FK - http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 17:49:09 -0500 From: Robbi Egersdorf <egersdor@m.......> Subject: Help in retrieving story parts Can someone please send me the direction to retrieve story parts from the listserv. I have lost so many story parts, what with the crash of my hard drive. Thanks Also, Maryann Jorgensen asked me to send her part 2,3, and 4 of The Stars in Ourselves and I keep getting them bounced back at me. Incidently, I have had so many requests for these parts, I wonder if the hampsters got hungry and ate these too. Robbi Knightie With Dark Tendencies Long Live the Knight egersdor@m....... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 18:52:51 -0400 From: Lillian Feden <feden@m.......> Subject: No Mail Hello, I'm off to the Weekend with Ger tomorrow, so I'm going no-mail. I know, I haven't posted alot lately and I may just stay on no-mail. I haven't decided. Ta! Lillian feden@m....... http://www.mcs.com/~feden Pragmatic Knightie; IB; MBDtK; PGEB (hormones took over) Fourth L on the right, contemplating the existence of intelligent life in the broadcast executive offices =========================================================================
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