File: "FORKNI-L LOG9606D" Part 12 TOPICS: Top 5 FK episodes: new ranking system eraser Where do we go from here? Crosses / evil Cast FK actors in old movies (2) I need HELP!!! need info The Fix & other stuff (3) Repulsion by Holy Objects Baptism? (5) WAR: Who is Leading the FoDs? Bridging the Knight - IMPORTANT!!! Picnic (2) Help! Disney (was 'Going Home at Night') (2) Chests and web pages The List (with a LK *SPOILER*) (SPOILER: HF) Janette and Love (long) oops.. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 23:08:10 -0400 From: Allison Percy <percy91@w.......> Subject: Re: Top 5 FK episodes: new ranking system Susan Honig <Susankenn@a.......> said: > What about the Last Act Canadian version whose picture you have on > your Web Site. Oh my gosh! I can't believe I forgot this one! This one goes between No. 1 and No. 2, I think. Call it No. 1 1/2. <g> For those unlucky enough never to have seen this scene, you can view a .gif file from this flashback at: http://assets.wharton.upenn.edu/~percy91/gwd/nickarm.html Nick gets extra points for the graceful hand gesture. More? C'mon, Knighties, speak up... Allie percy91@w....... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 20:11:18 -0700 From: Rick Bleyle <papaya@i.......> Subject: eraser Me and my friend were watching the movie Eraser (and for those of you who have never seen the movie then don't read this!) and in the beginning when arnold stoll two bodies from the morge my friend turned to me and said "hey, that's Nicks favorite place, I wonder if he saw him." There's a good sign that you watch to much forever knight:) Kelley Bleyle papaya@i....... :you may envy mortality but, never aspire to it." LaCriox ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 19:22:49 -0800 From: Muldy Sculler <ffbmh@a.......> Subject: Re: Where do we go from here? Leslie, funny you should mention FK ornaments--I make suncatchers (I love the irony of this). I designed an FK inspired suncatcher in shades of black and red with a red teardrop center--I can not believe how well they sold. Of course many of the buyers are fans of Rice, some had heard of FK and for some this was an introduction. The upshot--no, Hallmark will not do it, but I have. Barbara ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 23:31:17 -0400 From: Arletta Asbury <g4akl@e.......> Subject: Re: Crosses / evil At 03:36 PM 6/23/96 -0400, "Margaret wrote: > Unlike the "allergy" >to sunlight, which appears to have some pretty definite physical effects, On the contrary, I know one psychologist (and vampire buff) who says that sunlight only kills vampires if they BELIEVE that it will kill them, otherwise it's just unpleasant. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 20:32:25 -0700 From: Jerimi Paul <paul9454@u.......> Subject: Re: Cast FK actors in old movies How about Ger as Gatsby in "The Great Gatsby"? or Schanke as the creature in "Young Frankenstein"? OOOOH, I'd love to see NB as Jarenth in Labyrinth (BAD Jerimi. No biscuit) We could have "Dr. Lambert: Medicine Pathologist" Ok, getting silly. MUST. GET. COFFEE. -Jerimi--->paul9454@r....... Rampant Vaquero ~Pre-Vet student in the T.V. series "Real Life" Keeper of the deranged hamster. No! I didn't say that! Back! AAAHHH! Soon to be mother of a hopefully kinder, gentler rodent- a rat. ;) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 20:47:57 -0700 From: Jerimi Paul <paul9454@u.......> Subject: Re: Cast FK actors in old movies OOPs, that should be "Dr. Lambert: Pathologist Woman" sorry. ;) -Jerimi--->paul9454@r....... Rampant Vaquero ~Pre-Vet student in the T.V. series "Real Life" Keeper of the deranged hamster. No! I didn't say that! Back! AAAHHH! Soon to be mother of a hopefully kinder, gentler rodent- a rat. ;) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 23:55:23 -0400 From: Will Steeves <goid@i.......> Subject: Re: I need HELP!!! Ekaterina Baliasinskaya <ebaliasi@l.......> >** IF there are some Canadian fans here, on the list, IF they have been >taping FK from the very beginning, or at least have some of the first >episodes taped, PLEASE!!! Share your divine treasure with a fan dying in >the complete isolation among Melrose Place junkies!!! Her plea has been answered. :-) Cheers, Cousin Will (I almost wrote "Cousil Win" - Oh brother). --- Will Steeves, B.Sc. (Toronto, 1991), goid@i....... - "Neil Hull is GOiD" Publisher & Managing Editor, The New Edition (U of T); Nu '96, Psi Upsilon Ontario Area Coordinator, FREE (http://www.vix.com/free) If possession is 9/10 of the law, what's the other 1/10? - Steeves' Laws Vol. I ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 00:14:29 -0400 From: Will Steeves <goid@i.......> Subject: Re: need info Lisa C McLaughlin <lcm@d.......> writes: >I am going to be in Toronto for most of the month of July and I was wondering >if anyone could give me any information on interesting sights (especially >anything related to the show). If you can help me please mail me privately. >Thanks, thanks, thanks :)= I've mailed her the Toronto FK Fan Tour FAQ. (Wow, *two* good deeds for the day! Being a Cousin, this is an all-time low! :-) Bring out the Garlic-Dipped Spaghetti! Time for fifty more lashes! :-) ) Cheers, W. --- Will Steeves, B.Sc. (Toronto, 1991), goid@i....... - "Neil Hull is GOiD" Publisher & Managing Editor, The New Edition (U of T); Nu '96, Psi Upsilon Ontario Area Coordinator, FREE (http://www.vix.com/free) If possession is 9/10 of the law, what's the other 1/10? - Steeves' Laws Vol. I ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 21:19:41 -0700 From: Torrey <neva@i.......> Subject: Re: The Fix & other stuff At 08:05 PM 6/23/96 -0400, Ann wrote: >"Dona" Torrey writes: >What do you mean by " morally ambiguous characters"? Ann Answers: >Morally ambiguous means not all good and not all bad. IMO that sound like every person who has ever walked the earth <G>. Do you have to be totally void of evil to be considered *good*? If that is the case how can we call any of the characters anything but evil? Considering the fact that Nick does not kill and spends his time trying to help others IMO that would make him *good*. From what I understand of your POV is that because he has fangs nothing he does will ever make him good. > My point, tho', is that the situation is somewhat more ... stark >if you're a vampire. Because in that case, you're evil, by definition, no >matter what actions you may take. What is it about the Vampire that makes him/her evil? Is it the killing? The physical differences from mortals? Hmmm now that is something to think about <G>. Anns view from the previous post: >See, my take is this: We >have morally ambiguous characters living in a place where the rules are hard >and fast -- "Dona" Torrey <neva@i.......> *VAQUERA* Mikies SKL V-Loop "No. But her chances aren't good. Her surgeon was a falcon." Nick ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 21:19:44 -0700 From: Patty Winter <pwinter@b.......> Subject: Re: The Fix & other stuff Joy writes: To me, the ultimate proof's in the crosses. As long as any vampire is repelled by crosses, that means that God (on the show) definitively finds them evil. Hmmm, it always seemed just the opposite to me--that the FK vampires reacted that way because *they* felt as though they had separated themselves from God. (Something that Lacroix obviously didn't care about, but which bothered Nick.) Nice to finally get the rerun of "Games Vampires Play." Some of my Due South friends in countries that don't get FK have been eager to see Catherine Bruhier in this very un-Elaine-like role. Patty ================================ N6BIS ================================ Support "Due South"! If you're a fan, let CBS know ASAP! ========== patty@w....... ======= Sunnyvale, Calif. ============= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 21:22:07 -0700 From: Amy R. <akr@n.......> Subject: Repulsion by Holy Objects The idea that a vampire's repulsion by holy objects, specifically crosses and crucifixes, is psychosomatic, strikes me as slightly silly. Why? Because LC is repulsed by holy objects. There are multiple examples, at least one of which is spoiler protected, but the one the most of us will be able to recall is in SoB. LC has no reverence whatsoever for Christianity, and he has absolutely no compunctions about being a vampire, yet he is affected by the items in the ex-priest's chamber. And LC isn't the only vampire who has been affected by holy symbols for which he has no respect. Really -- the only way to explain the flames that burn at the touch of a holy object would be to say that the vampire's telekinetic powers were subconsciously employed. Why on earth would you want to accept only the "good" part of vampirism, and reject the disadvantages as psychosomatic? Someone asked about holy water. I recall it being used in SoB, but I don't recall it hitting the skin of either vampire. Even if it hit Nick, he was possessed by a demon at the time, so it's hard to judge. However, as holy water is really baptismal water (that's its point, you know, to remind you of your baptism) I'm betting that it burns like acid. I also assume that if your average vampire tried to take Communion, his head would explode! ;-) Nicky-boy could probably get away with just a really, really bad burn... maybe a hole in his tongue.... :-) ***** Amy, Lady of the Knight (akr@n.......) ***** "Behind the problem of evil, the problem of good./... tree after tree, inexplicable, yes inexplicable,/ never mind your principles of physics." -- L. Fargas ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 21:36:34 -0700 From: Torrey <neva@i.......> Subject: Baptism? OK here is a question for someone with more knowledege on the subject than me. All vampires start out mortal. As I understand it Christian babies are baptized. Now does that leave some kind of holy mark on the soul of the person? If it does how does it affect a person when they become a vampire later in life? Would it be like carrying a internal cross with you at all times? I think it would be a bit uncomfortable <G>. "Dona" Torrey <neva@i.......> *VAQUERA* Mikies SKL V-Loop "No. But her chances aren't good. Her surgeon was a falcon." Nick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 00:44:04 -0400 From: Will Steeves <goid@i.......> Subject: WAR: Who is Leading the FoDs? Here's a question for you fine folks... Who is leading the FoDs in War 7? Just curious. I haven't seen or heard much from them lately - or maybe I'm just skipping too quickly through the digests...? I've sent a copy of this request to the War Mistress, so conceivably she'll wish to answer...if not (or in any case), could the leader of the FoDs please stand up? Thanks. I'm a Cousin, of course :-), but I'm *hoping* that the FoDs are being organised, and _are_ intending to bring Schanke back from the dead, as is their War Mistress-Given Right(tm). Somehow, a fan fiction War just wouldn't be the same without good, old, "lovable" Don. :-) Cheers, Perky Cousin Will, slightly toasted from a sunburn "awarded" at a pool party north of the city today...much, much fun, but with some "ouching". :-) --- Will Steeves, B.Sc. (Toronto, 1991), goid@i....... - "Neil Hull is GOiD" Publisher & Managing Editor, The New Edition (U of T); Nu '96, Psi Upsilon Ontario Area Coordinator, FREE (http://www.vix.com/free) If possession is 9/10 of the law, what's the other 1/10? - Steeves' Laws Vol. I ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 22:10:17 -0700 From: Cynthia Hoffman <choff@v.......> Subject: Bridging the Knight - IMPORTANT!!! The Bridging the Knight charity convention is moving from October 1996 to the weekend of January 17-19, 1997 in the hopes of making the convention more accessible to both fans and invited guests. The new date will coincide with the projected release dates of the first Forever Knight novel by Susan Sizemore as well as the release of "Keeper of the King," Nigel Bennett's book, co-written with PN Elrod. It will also coincide with the beginning of the official syndication of the first season episodes on the Sci-Fi Channel. We are also informed that holding the convention at a later date will make possible the inclusion of additional guests who are currently busy in October, but who might be more able to attend a con at a later time. With the move, we will be relocating the convention itself to a new facility outside of San Francisco proper and into more affordable accommodations in an area adjacent to the City itself. Finally, this will give those of us planning the convention more time to arrange panels and events, as well as those planning various charitable donations more time to complete them. Please note that those people who have already registered, will be receiving a mailing later this week. If you have any questions regarding the above, please feel free to contact me privately and I'll do my best to answer your questions. Please forward this anywhere you think the information needs to go. Thank you. Cynthia Hoffman choff@v....... Star Urioste starfrost@a....... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 22:34:37 -0700 From: Amy R. <akr@n.......> Subject: Picnic Susan Garrett said that there is a first season episode (Canadian version) which not only has Nick kissing Nat, he does it while they're on a PICNIC. Why on earth have I never heard of this scene before? Why haven't I seen it? Please, someone tell me what episode it's in, so that I may put it at the top of my "unseen eps wish list." :-) A picnic, a picnic.... It puts me in mind of my favorite episode of BATB, "A Happy Life," when Catherine imagines herself and Vincent walking through the park in the daytime. Vincent asks how this can be possible, and Catherine replies that it's because this is what she wanted, more than anything. I've always thought Catherine and Natalie had an amazing amount in common, most of it, admittedly, because of the unusual men in their lives. Has anyone ever written a crossover where Natalie meets Catherine? Even through veiled allusions, that would be a fascinating friendship.... And, goodness knows, both characters could have used more human, female friends.... ***** Amy, Lady of the Knight (akr@n.......) ***** "Behind the problem of evil, the problem of good./... tree after tree, inexplicable, yes inexplicable,/ never mind your principles of physics." -- L. Fargas ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 22:55:59 -0700 From: Elizabeth Ann Lewis <lizbet@p.......> Subject: Re: Baptism? At 9:36 PM 6/23/96, Torrey wrote: >All vampires start out mortal. As I understand it Christian babies >are baptized. Now does that leave some kind of holy mark on the soul of the >person? Actually, Catholic baptism (I'm assuming it is similar for other Christian denomonations) has to do with *removing* a stain on a human soul, ie Original Sin. According to Catholic dogma, every human child is born with Adam and Eve's Original Sin on her or his soul, and baptism removes that sin. In medieval belief if you are not baptised and you die (like a child who dies shortly after birth) your soul goes into Limbo, neither Heaven, Hell or Purgatory. In some cases, a child could be baptised *in the birth canal* to prevent this from happening. BTW, just to avoid posting again... I noticed some severe logic problems with my last post (about how we know vamps are evil). I withdraw the argument, but not my opinion. :) Lizbet ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Proud Member of the Mercenary Guild lizbet@p....... ~~ Lizbetann@a....... ~~ Ravenette of the New Order ~ Cleopatra ~ Knightie/NatPacker/N&NPacker with Cousinly tendencies and the faintest of leanings toward Vanquera-ism ~~ Arnyd yw Ewyll hyd yw ~~ Listowner, Middle Ages Life ~~ http://members.aol.com/Lizbetann/mypage.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 22:47:32 -0700 From: Fundenberger <fundy@t.......> Subject: Re: Baptism? > OK here is a question for someone with more knowledege on the subject than me. > All vampires start out mortal. As I understand it Christian babies >are baptized. Now does that leave some kind of holy mark on the soul of the >person? >"Dona" Torrey I am a Christian, and I think that the baptism ceremony is really misrepresentated these days. I believe that it is a ritual whose significance has lost it's true meaning. Back in the old days, it was used to show that the baptisee (person who was baptised)(just incase I spelled it wrong and you don't understand what I'm trying to say) was ready to profess his faith in God (I'm pretty sure anyways). This is my belief and I realize that you guys probably don't agree, or care. To get to the point, I don't believe that the ceremony or the dunking in water, etc... while the vampire was mortal, would cause any pain in the undead-life. It is purely a ritual and nothing physical. IMO. Julie Fundenberger Scrapper, Knightie, SKLer fundy@t....... ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 02:27:17 -0400 From: Joy Davis <Rjoi@a.......> Subject: Help! Hi All! I printed out a hardcopy of a recent post where the commands were given to retrieve stories from the database. I am not getting the response I need from the listserv Could someone forward me the *exact* commands to type (word for word) for the following: Story by title Story by author unknown title Thank you!!! ~Joy~~ ~~Member UF~~Cousin of the Knight~~ Dark Knightie~~Cousin (it's an aquired taste) ***enJOYing an endless Forever Knight...*** *You will always be mine* LC to Nick ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 23:26:10 -0700 From: Bonnela <callalily@l.......> Subject: Disney (was 'Going Home at Night') Susan Garrett wrote: > She [Natalie] is his conscience. She represents, to him, the >best that humanity has to offer and that he wants to have. Is it just me or did anyone else get a flash of Jimeny Cricket singing, "...And always let your conscience be your guide." <g> Actually, this is probably not a bad analogy. Nick as Pinocchio - striving to be human, making mistakes along the way, learning valuable lessons about life, the people in it, and what things are really important. LC as Gepetto -- the creator. Natalie as Jimeny Cricket -- the conscience, always there even when disregarded, trying to help. Bonnie <callalily@l.......> "Some rescue! When you came in here, didn't you have a plan for getting out?" -- Leia in Star Wars ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 22:37:19 -2055 From: "L. Katherine Queen" <lqueen@p.......> Subject: Re: Disney (was 'Going Home at Night') Bonnela <callalily@l.......> wrote: >Actually, this is probably not a bad analogy. Nick as Pinocchio - striving >to be human, making mistakes along the way, learning valuable lessons about >life, the people in it, and what things are really important. LC as Gepetto >-- the creator. Not a bad analogy, particularly in equating Nick with Pinocchio. They both act like little boys with wood where their brains should be. Sorry guys I'm a Knightie but I still think that Nick in a little dense some times. Katherine, devoted to the Knight lqueen@p....... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 22:43:05 -2055 From: "L. Katherine Queen" <lqueen@p.......> Subject: Chests and web pages Hi Allison, You go ahead and discuss chests as much as your little heart desires. I find those discussions a lot more interesting than the treatise(s) debating good vs evil...yawn <vbg>. Philosophers have entirely too much time on their hands. On another subject, I am trying to make my own web page and while I use computers all day I have never programmed using html. Got any good tips on where to look for info? BTW-you are coming to the Gerthering aren't you? Hope to see you there. Katherine, devoted to the Knight lqueen@p....... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 23:49:29 +0000 From: Lisa <redjasper@e.......> Subject: Re: The List (with a LK *SPOILER*) On Sun, 23 Jun 1996, Amy R. wrote: >You know you're in bad shape when reading your digests makes you >reach for the aspirin bottle.... [snip] My affection to you all, even >those I'd like to bop over the head with a Nerf bat... hard. :-) LOL! I know <exactly> what Amy means. Had visitors all weekend, and one said, "What's with all the frustrated sighs?" this morning when I sat down to read my e-mail. :-) I didn't realize how much I was sighing and muttering under my breath until it was pointed out to me. Shall we start a new faction for Nerf bat wielders??? <vbg> After all, a little "Nerfing" is better than homicide. ;-) And--a question for those who don't think Nick loves Natalie. This is something that I don't "get" and have always wondered about. Those of you who believe he's using her only, and that he doesn't love her, and that he's not serious about wanting mortality....what, then, is to like about Nick in the present day? How does he "work" for you as a sympathetic yet flawed character? 'Cause, for me, Nick wouldn't work at all without those elements. To me, he wouldn't even <be> Nick. And, along those lines, a SPOILER for LAST KNIGHT... 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Related to what I said above, the more I think about it, and the more eps I watch from previous seasons, the show would be ruined completely for me in the future (i.e., TV movies) if Nick did indeed let Natalie die. Which is why I have decided, until proven otherwise, that LK Does Not Exist. And why I won't ever watch that episode again. Oh--and as to which season produced Nick&NatPackers...I came in on a rerun of "Killer Instinct" mid-second season, and immediately liked the chemistry bewteen N&N even without "romantic" undertones. And I only saw "Only the Lonely" all the way through for the very, very first time ***shocking public confession ahead*** <last week>! Lisa W. * redjasper@e....... dusting off the sig for the sake of saber rattling... Nick&NatPacker * Natpacker * Knightie ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 02:50:22 -0400 From: Allison Percy <percy91@w.......> Subject: Re: Baptism? Elizabeth Ann Lewis <lizbet@p.......> wrote: > Actually, Catholic baptism (I'm assuming it is similar for other Christian > denomonations) has to do with *removing* a stain on a human soul, ie > Original Sin. Hmm... interesting... let's see what I can recall from a childhood of Sunday school. These are the impressions of a "mostly lapsed Methodist," so I apologize if there are errors or misinterpretations herein. I seem to recall the Methodist attitude toward baptism being that it is simply a symbol of the church community's commitment to raise a child in faith and love. I think the ceremony asks not just the parents and godparents but also the entire congregation to promise to raise the child in the church and show him/her the love of God etc. etc. I *think* I remember someone saying that there's no erasure of sin involved in a Protestant baptism (which explains why the Baptists aren't shy about waiting until adulthood to get baptized). So for Methodists, at least (and still assuming I'm remembering this correctly), baptism is pretty much a purely symbolic act that is not assumed to erase any stain of sin. As far as I know, Methodists don't believe in Original Sin anyway. I don't even know if the water in the baptismal font in a Methodist church is considered "holy water." But then Methodists take communion with bread and grape juice (stop laughing!!) instead of wafers and wine, and we never believed the bread and grape juice *became* the body and blood of Christ, just that it *symbolized* the body and blood of Christ. Evidence of a substantially different approach toward religious objects, I think. And that's probably why in vampire movies you never see Protestants running after vampires with crosses -- a Protestant cross doesn't hold the same significance as a Catholic crucifix since it's an issue of being a *symbol* of religious significance versus being somehow intrinsically *imbued* with religious power. (Unlapsed Protestants and those who paid more attention in Sunday school than I did, feel free to correct me....) Egads, I can't believe I actually posted an opinion on this topic. I hope any misinterpretations in this post aren't too serious. I do think there is a reason why Protestants in general don't make a big showing in vampire fiction, and I don't think that it's just that Protestant churches weren't around during the days when the vampire myths arose. Somehow I felt safer posting a list of the top 5 episodes for viewing Nick's chest. <gulp> BTW, and on an entirely unrelated topic, I have to go get a tetanus shot tomorrow because of a wound I incurred while on a training ride for the FK charity bike tour. And I'm still not sure that this wound won't end up permanently tattooed to my leg (go ahead -- ask!). Of course all of this is just a blatant plug for donations for the tour. :^) Checks made out to Children's Hospital Foundation can be sent to: Allison Percy, 0000 Xxxxxxxx Xx. #000, Xxxxxxxxxxxx, XX 00000. :^) :^) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Allison Percy, Knightie & Believer in SPAM percy91@w....... __o Pedal for Forever Knight! Support the charity bike tour! _`\<,_ E-mail me to find out how to donate and/or join the ride. (*)/ (*) http://assets.wharton.upenn.edu/~percy91/FKtour.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 22:51:50 -0800 From: Muldy Sculler <ffbmh@a.......> Subject: Re: Picnic Nick not only kisses Nat at this picnic, he caresses her leg, lower! I know where your minds were going--good for you! Those Canadian episodes put a truely different spin on the Nat/Nick situation. Question: Are there "Canadian versions" of all three seasons? Barbara ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 02:54:11 -0400 From: Joy Davis <Rjoi@a.......> Subject: Re: The Fix & other stuff Patty wrote that *I* wrote: To me, the ultimate proof's in the crosses. As long as any vampire is repelled by crosses, that means that God (on the show) definitively finds them evil. Actually, Ann wrote that and I was replying to *her* original post. I don't want credit for this one! I had replied that I thought the show was supporting this viewpoint, but I was not the one to point it out originally. ~Joy~~ ~~Member UF~~Cousin of the Knight~~ Dark Knightie~~Cousin (it's an aquired taste) ***enJOYing an endless Forever Knight...*** *You will always be mine* LC to Nick ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 23:53:49 -0700 From: Torrey <neva@i.......> Subject: Re: Baptism? Thanks for the info. It was something I was wondering about. >Julie Fundenberger This is my belief and I realize that you guys probably don't agree, or care. But I do care. I value the opinion of every member of this list. People from diffrent backgrounds add new dimensions to my life. As for agreeing...well I have nothing to base a disagreement on <G>. "Dona" Torrey <neva@i.......> *VAQUERA* Mikies SKL V-Loop "No. But her chances aren't good. Her surgeon was a falcon." Nick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 00:01:37 -0700 From: Amy R. <akr@n.......> Subject: (SPOILER: HF) Janette and Love (long) (Spoilers for HF. Ten lines of spoiler space by Keats.) Ah, happy, happy boughs! that cannot shed Your leaves, nor ever bid the spring adieu; And, happy melodist, unwearied, For ever piping songs for ever new; More happy love! more happy, happy love! For ever warm and still to be enjoy'd, For ever panting, and for ever young; All breathing human passion far above, That leaves a heart high-sorrowful and cloy'd, A burning forehead, and a parching tongue. Janette told Nick, "His name was Robert McDonagh, and I was in love with him more than you can ever imagine." Was that merely a comment on Nick's lack of imagination? I don't think so. I think it was a simultaneous statement that Janette considered her feelings for Robert to be True Love, and an admission that Nick had never loved her in that way -- never loved anyone in that way. Now, I adore Nick, philosophically and personally, but he does have his failings when it comes to love. And they are big, huge, gaping failings. Many people seem to feel that he is (or was) in love with Janette. Admittedly, he even says so in the flashbacks of PotM. However, I cannot think of one single piece of interaction between Nick and Janette that is romantic *and* non-sexual. The best I can think of is the tag of AFWTD, but that seemed like platonic concern for a friend. The next best two are the tag of BM and the teaser of C&C, but both of them carry sexual innuendo. Even in the PotM flashback, Janette's "reason" for their love is in a passionate kiss. Are there any such scenes? I, personally, make a distinction between sex and love, and if there is a non-sexual scene of romantic love between Nick and Janette, I'd really like to see it. As it is, I conclude that when Janette found real love with Robert, she realized that what she'd shared with Nick was vastly inferior. There was, imo, absolutely no sexual tension between Nick and Janette in HF. What had always been there before was utterly drained away. And while part of it may have been due to Nick's growing feelings for Natalie, I think it can be reliably traced to Janette's changed feelings for Nick. She didn't want him anymore. That, plus the horrible wrong he did her at the end of HF, make me suspect that Janette will never be "in love" with Nick again. She may forgive him, she may continue to regard him as family, but at the moment I can imagine no scenario in which she would take him back. Janette left TO a month (?) before BB began. If she left in August, and HF occurred in January, that's six months between "That thing which you fear most has happened to me. Doubt" and "I realized that your quest to become mortal again is right." Now, because I believe Nick's quest is right, I have no problem believing that Janette would eventually adopt it. Aside from that, however, I also have no problem imagining that, constantly in contact with Nick and his mortal friends, Janette had begun to be reminded of those things she, as a vampire, could never have: the sunlight, children, food, freedom from the hunger, freedom from her links with LC and Nick.... and that salvation thing, too. But Janette was not searching for mortality, as such. She was searching for a release from the vampire's "cold heart." I believe that is what she meant when she said, "It was through him that I realized that your quest to become mortal again is right.... Strange that I would run from the truth I saw in you only to find it again in Robert." Because Janette has represented the moral ground between LC and Nick, I do not believe that she could have been convinced that vampirism is inherently evil, though she would have been convinced that murder is wrong. What, then, was the truth she saw in Nick's life and found in Robert's love? I submit that it might have been mortal love, made more precious by its inevitable end. Without the valleys, the mountains lose their meaning, and if the vampiric heart "cannot allow the emotion of loss to infect" it, then there must be emotions on the other end of the spectrum that are unattainable. Perhaps the shorter candle burns more brightly. Perhaps that is why LC let Fleur go, to allow her all her emotions. Perhaps that is why Janette embraced her mortality. ***** Amy, Lady of the Knight (akr@n.......) ***** "Behind the problem of evil, the problem of good./... tree after tree, inexplicable, yes inexplicable,/ never mind your principles of physics." -- L. Fargas ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 23 Jun 1996 23:06:38 -2055 From: "L. Katherine Queen" <lqueen@p.......> Subject: oops.. Hi gang, That last post was meant to be private e-mail. I didn't intend to offend (pun intended, there I did it again!) I have just been cranky this weekend. I know ...it was my evil twin. I bravely accept any flames that might come my way. I am after all a Knightie. Sorry again. Katherine, devoted to the Knight lqueen@p....... =========================================================================
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