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Digest - 26 Apr 1996

Fri, 26 Apr 1996

There are 13 messages totalling 360 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. [enforcers cont'd]
  2. Proof in FK (3)
  3. Niqpickers
  4. Gemini tape tour (2)
  5. NiQ Questions (was Various Topics) (2)
  6. Animal RightsActivists
  7. Empirical evidence
  8. The mystery box
  9. VCR Alert (Multiple!)


Date:    Fri, 26 Apr 1996 11:37:48 -0500
From:    Mad Hatter <cli7@s.......>
Subject: Re: [enforcers cont'd]

At 01:17 PM 4/26/96 EDT, you wrote:
>I disagree about that "proof" statement.  How about the bullet-in-the-head
>episode when Lacroix pulls down the x-rays in front of the doctor's eyes
>and then tells her what to think?
>The proof is in the vampire (-:

hmmm.. makes for an interesting argument.
what about that one ep where schanke [sp?!] was on to
nick and he thought [and did, for the most part, i think]
that he had the evidence that nick is a vampire. he remembered
being hypnotized by nick~and the LC later finished the job.
i don't know what to make of it--but i did notice that LC
used indirect tactics in hypnotizing--that is, "suggesting"
logical explanation and such, whereas nick tended to be
more direct as in "you didn't...." or "you will...."...
just a disjointed thought~
off to math lec, then a used-book store to buy "the golden ass"!

~mad hatter <cli7@s.......>
*       *       *
We dance around in a ring & suppose,
But the Secret sits in the middle & knows. --robert frost
*       *       *


Date:    Fri, 26 Apr 1996 13:54:15 EDT
From:    Lisa McDavid <D020214@u.......>
Subject: Proof in FK

The proof that can keep mortals from being hypnotized out of their
knowledge that vampires exist has to be just that: empiric proof of the
existence of vampires. Janette actually told Nick that in Unreality
TV in those words.

The doctor in NiQ didn't have any idea that Nick was a vampire. She
just had xrays of what she thought were fatal injuries to the skull
of a human police detective. LaCroix merely told her, under hypnosis,
that she would henceforth believe that the bullets "bounced off the
good detective's *very* thick skull." He didn't say anything about
vampires, either.

So, since she never had proof that vampires existed, or even any idea,
she was hypnotizable.

Cousin Lisa -- "That will be trouble."
Lisa McDavid


Date:    Fri, 26 Apr 1996 13:52:15 EDT
From:    Tanya Smith <bodybldr@v.......>
Subject: Niqpickers

As a writer, I know that we can have these "lapses" where we forget our
characters are vampires and place them in broad daylight scenes (Looks
like "The Kindred" writers have long-term lapses).  I, for one, in my
initial opening chapter misconstrued time and it only dawned on me (no
pun intended) when I was in the shower one night.  So, I had to go back
and reconstruct time to make everything jive.
It sounds like the writers had a "lapse".  But there is this theory,
created by Samuel Cooleridge (author of Kubla Khan) called "willing
suspension of disbelief". Basically, this theory means"take your
logic and shove it...".  Stop analyzing and enjoy the show!


Date:    Fri, 26 Apr 1996 10:56:55 -0700
From:    K Swanson <kswanson@d.......>
Subject: Re: Gemini tape tour

Nancy writes:
>Just wanted to let those on my tour route know what seems to have
>happened.  I mailed out the tape over a month ago, and it apparently
>was taken by the first person on the list, never to be seen or heard
>from again.  As a matter of fact, she didn't respond to my query
>about the tape.

I'd completely forgotten about the Gemini tape tour!

Would the person who has the tape that I sent out, please alert me to where
it is right now? I haven't heard anything since the first person I sent it
to said she was sending it on.....

Karyn Swanson, not worried yet, just curious.


Date:    Fri, 26 Apr 1996 14:14:33 EDT
From:    Tanya Smith <bodybldr@v.......>
Subject: Proof in FK

So is the proof in what you think, what you know, or the evidence?  Or
does proof require evidence and supposition?
Just curious; I've had characters that had proof but didn't know it
was proof because the idea that there are vampires didn't exist.  Kinda
like the doctor with those x-rays showing a bullet in the middle of
Nick's brain.


Date:    Fri, 26 Apr 1996 14:27:14 -0500
From:    Stephanie Babbitt <stephanie.babbitt@g.......>
Subject: Re: NiQ Questions (was Various Topics)

Re Nick & Nat's interaction and other NiQ issues, Nancy F. wrote:
>How could his lack of blood pressure, etc., remain hidden all day -
>those nurses have to maintain the charts on the patients.

This troubled me, too. Wouldn't they notice that his IV didn't ever drip
(requires a pulse)? That his temperature was off the bottom of the scale?

The answer: another installment of Stephanie's theory of FK vampirism!
(Okay, cut out the rude sounds already!) Chew on this and see what you

Those of you who have endured previous installments know that I think the
vampire condition is genetic and that the mutated gene produces proteins
that not only suppress aging and other human bodily functions (already
discussed at exhausting/revolting length--remember 54 years? <g>) but make
the vampire hypersensitive to stimuli (e.g., sound, sunlight, garlic,
sacred vibes). I'm even contemplating that the vampire agent may be a
reptilian or ichthyic sort of protein (like those that allow certain
creatures to regenerate amputated body parts). But I digress.

Now, let's assume that the grievously injured vampire's system devotes
every shred of its unique constitution to repairing the damage.
Conceivably, this could suspend production of the vampire proteins in favor
of cell regeneration. If this happened, the vampire *could* have
respiratory/heart rates, temperatures, etc. that fell within the normal
human range for a brief time.

Because Nick's injury was so traumatic (the brain takes longer to heal than
many other organs), it took a long time for the catastropic-injury effect
to go away. He was able to eat and metabolize food, to withstand sun, to do
whatever it is he did with Nat (I'm in the they-didn't-go-all-the-way camp,
BTW). It's when he begins to have flashes of memory (indicating that the
brain is almost completely healed) that his vampiric condition re-emerges.

This still doesn't explain Ellen/Monica/Jaqueline, unless you assume that
she was so psychologically traumatized that her body acted as though it
were injured, suppressing production of vampire proteins unless Jacqueline
came to the fore.

Anybody want to discuss this further? As you can probably tell, I find it
fascinating. Plus, it's something to do while I'm not in Toronto (insert
wail of desperate frustration and jealousy here).

Stephanie Babbitt, Vaquera who wishes she had Nat's job  ;-)


Date:    Fri, 26 Apr 1996 14:41:44 -0500
From:    Stephanie Babbitt <stephanie.babbitt@g.......>
Subject: Re: Proof in FK

Lisa said:
>The doctor in NiQ didn't have any idea that Nick was a vampire. She
>just had xrays of what she thought were fatal injuries to the skull
>of a human police detective.

A concept that just occurred to me during this thread: *when* were those
films taken? In the opener, they're bringing him in off the ambulance. They
try to resuscitate, then they "call it", and he's dead. By the time Nat
finishes with him, the wound has closed over and appears nearly healed. So
when the films? Yes, I'm bored--how did you know?

>LaCroix merely told her, under hypnosis,
>that she would henceforth believe that the bullets "bounced off the
>good detective's very thick skull."

Nat's expression when the doctor repeats this phrase to Reese and Tracy is
absolutely priceless (as is LC's when he says it in the first place). Both
Catherine and Nigel did an awesome job on this ep (as did GWD, but that
goes without saying).

Stephanie, bored Vaquera (killing the 12 hours till Jane Doe!)


Date:    Fri, 26 Apr 1996 10:30:20 -0800
From:    John Soo-Hoo <galahad!jsoohoo@n.......>
Subject: Re: Animal RightsActivists

>Do you suppose the animal rights activists will protest outside The Raven
>or start a campaign against vampires (like Nick) for killing animals?

They may protest, but I'll bet it would only be during the day.  They
best stay clear during the night.


Date:    Fri, 26 Apr 1996 11:52:57 -0700
From:    Swordsister <catheboo@c.......>
Subject: Re: NiQ Questions (was Various Topics)

On Fri, 26 Apr 1996, Nancy Fralic wrote:

> However, vampires don't eat food, either, and Nick not only was, he
> didn't know he was a vampire.  The vampire element didn't seem to take

Yes, which tends to imply that vampires can eat real food, just have a
severe psychological revulsion towards it.  Much like a normal person
drinking blood, I would guess.

> where he wasn't likely to vamp out.  It still doesn't answer why Natalie
> would so positively think they had "won".  As a scientist, she wouldn't

I didn't think she had so positively thought they had "won."  As I
recall, she was pretty darn frantic when she realized that Nick had gone
out in the sun.  If she were positive he was human, she shouldn't have
been worried.

> up at the hospital (the scene when he's eating), the exterior opening
> shot appears to show a dawn scene.  By the time Nick finishes eating and
> dresses, and is discharged, it would have to be full daylight.  How did

Or Natalie possibly convinced them to hold him for something or another
until evening?  I would think that if she took him out in daylight, that
would have been at least as important a scene as the eating, and they
would have put it in.  Since they didn't, I assumed no earth-shattering
things happened between the time in the hospital and the time she got him

> could his lack of blood pressure, etc., remain hidden all day - those
> nurses have to maintain the charts on the patients.

Yes, they do maintain those charts... daily.  And I could be totally on
crack, but for some reason I remember Natalie saying that she took his
blood pressure when she walked in, so he'd be free all day from the
morning routine.  But as I said, my memory is kinda fuzzy on this part.

Catherine Boone                 catheboo@c.......
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with
 themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon." - H. L. Mencken


Date:    Fri, 26 Apr 1996 12:00:14 -0700
From:    Valery King <kingv@u.......>
Subject: Re: Gemini tape tour

Nancy and Karyn's recent messages impel me to post as well:

Will the holders of all of the 4 tour tapes please email me off-list, so
I can locate them all? So far as I know, none of the tapes have made it
home yet. We need these back so we can start the second round of the tour.

People should not have kept these tapes any longer than 3 days before
passing them on. Those were the guidelines everyone agreed to beforehand,
although I realize sometimes things happen to cause delays.Please be
considerate of all members of the tour and move these along in a more
timely fashion, or the whole thing falls apart.

I thank the list for its indulgence.

Valery, your tour director


Date:    Fri, 26 Apr 1996 15:03:49 EDT
From:    Lisa McDavid <D020214@u.......>
Subject: Empirical evidence

Well, Janette definitely said, "empirical evidence." In Unreality TV,
this was the videotape of Nick flying that the the television reporter
had shot. She only knew that Nick could fly, not that he was a vampire,
yet when he tried to hypnotize her, it didn't work.

Theoretically, this word could mean only knowledge. What seemed to be
meant was documentary proof, like the Civil War Photographer in that
episode's flashbacks, who had caught LaCroix on camera hovering in the
air and feeding.

Yes, I know this is impossible in the actual technical level of
photography in the 1860's. We went all round that at the time. :)

Cousin Lisa -- "That will be trouble."
Lisa McDavid


Date:    Fri, 26 Apr 1996 15:25:46 EDT
From:    TORREY L HARRIS <Dona_Torrey@p.......>
Subject: The mystery box

Ok you guys....who sent me the wonderful box full of FK goodies? Cherri
was it you? I just opened it and have been on the floor laughing ever
since. I don't think I have ever had so much fun opening a package in
my life. The stuffed cow and cow pie were a nice touch. So come on and
fess up who sent it.

I think I have the meaning of everything in the box figured out but I
am still a little unclear on one or two of them ( Universal Studios
Florida token?).

Thank you Thank you....I am still ROTF.

Dona Torrey


Date:    Fri, 26 Apr 1996 16:51:22 -0400
From:    Nancy Fralic <fralic@m.......>
Subject: VCR Alert (Multiple!)

I just did a search on the TV Guide Online Listings Web Page for all of
our favorite actors.  If you have not discovered the homepage, it will
give you the next 14 days worth of listings for a particular actor, show,
etc.  The address is http://www.iguide.com/tv/tvguide/

Sorry, Lisa Ryder and Catherine Disher have nothing outside of FK
All listings are EST, generic East Coast.

May 2 Thursday        USA Highlander
May 3 Friday   9 p.m. USA Movie, Hush Little Baby,
                                stars Diane Ladd, Wendel Meldrum, GWD

Nigel Bennett:
April 30 Tues.  3:30 a.m. and
May 9    Thurs. 10:05 p.m. MAX Movie, Soft Deceit,
                                stars Patrick Bergin, Wesley Ship, NB

Ben Bass:
May 4 Saturday  7:00 p.m.  LIFE Movie, A Killer Among Friends
                                stars Patty Duke

Deborah Duchene:
May 2 Thursday  7 a.m.  STRZ Movie, The Broken Cord
                                stars Jimmy Smits

Blu Mankuma:
April 30 Tuesday 12 a.m.  SHO Movie, Convict Cowboy

I can hear the soft swish of remotes being whipped out to program the
times now!

Nancy Fralic


End of FORKNI-L Digest - 26 Apr 1996

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