FORKNI-L
Digest - 22 Mar 1996 to 23 Mar 1996 - Special issue
Sat, 23 Mar 1996
There are 33 messages totalling 1134 lines in this issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. Need help with fkfic-l
2. Ribena RDA and Nutritional Info
3. Sci-Fi Channel needs your help! (fwd)
4. Need know broadcast week of final episode
5. I AM the Webgoddess... (3)
6. Uncle -- VCR Alert
7. New Vampires on the Block! (2)
8. What did Kay do? (2)
9. Feedback from the Dominion...
10. New FK time slot
11. familiar face on Airwolf
12. FK Shirts/Jackets
13. Er... Hi
14. Er... HI!
15. Ahhh the power! SciFi
16. The Request Lines Are Open...
17. YKYB...
18. VA Party Quote List
19. Cousinly Essentials?
20. FK on SciFi channel
21. Episodes left
22. Uncle and Janette
23. Does Tracy know??
24. My Web Page
25. New Episodes?
26. Nick&Nat; Nat&LC
27. 99 bottles.....
28. Need quote from STF
29. Nick&Nat, Nat&LC
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 21:23:48 -0600
From: The Other Immortal <phoenix@i.......>
Subject: Re: Need help with fkfic-l
Wicked Cousin Tippi wrote:
>Hey all! I recently changed my internet address so now I am trying to
>subscribe to FKFIC-L. Only problem is, I don't remember how to set my
>topics to ADULT options. Grr. My brain is like a sieve today... Help
>would be much appreciated!
Ummmm... could whoever sends her the info send me some too? I'm totally
baffled myself.
Cousin "Susan" Phoenix, The Cousin Who Ate All The Sushi In Japan
phoenix@i.......
**MSTie Mad Scientist Somewhat-Extraordinaire** *I'd be nothing if not cold.*
I'm gonna live forever, or die trying. ~~~ Me
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 21:23:47 -0600
From: The Other Immortal <phoenix@i.......>
Subject: Re: Ribena RDA and Nutritional Info
In reference to the high vitamin C content in Ribena:
>Thus proving the phrase, "that which does not kill you will make you
>stronger."
>Barbara
Or just really, really hyper...
Cousin "Susan" Phoenix, The Cousin Who Ate All The Sushi In Japan
phoenix@i.......
**MSTie Mad Scientist Somewhat-Extraordinaire** *I'd be nothing if not cold.*
I'm gonna live forever, or die trying. ~~~ Me
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 22:33:13 -0500
From: Siona <siona@n.......>
Subject: Re: Sci-Fi Channel needs your help! (fwd)
On Thu, 21 Mar 1996, Allison Percy wrote:
> New York, NY 10020, but I'd like to have his full title as well. I think
> the Philadelphia gang can manage another box of specially wrapped "Forever
> Hersheys" bars!
I will gladly through in one of my "NAPTE"esque T-Shirts as part of the
Philly gift.
Siona@n.......
Dark Knightie!
Help save Forever Knight! see http://www.netaxs.com/~siona/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 21:48:52 -0600
From: The Other Immortal <phoenix@i.......>
Subject: Need know broadcast week of final episode
Does anyone know the broadcast week for Last Knight? I'm going to try to
have a FK/Vampyre party that night (nothing definite; still need to ask
parents). I say both as I have no episodes of FK on tape (can never find
blank tapes in this house, and my parents would probably record over them if
I left one out), but I can get tons of good vamp flicks.
Oh, if anyone in the Tulsa, Oklahoma area would be interested in something
like this, or anyone is willing to travel, please mail me privately. I need
to find out if it would be worth actually putting this together. We'll
hopefully have Ribena.
Tulsa shows FK on saturday night/sunday morning at 12:35, to give an idea of
when it would be. I'm hoping I can talk my parents into going to Branson
for the weekend (or something).
Danke!
Cousin "Susan" Phoenix, The Cousin Who Ate All The Sushi In Japan
phoenix@i.......
**MSTie Mad Scientist Somewhat-Extraordinaire** *I'd be nothing if not cold.*
I'm gonna live forever, or die trying. ~~~ Me
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 22:55:57 -0500
From: Donna <hozdmb@r.......>
Subject: Re: I AM the Webgoddess...
At 05:06 PM 3/22/96 -0500, you wrote:
>I have just learned how to do a really really really neat thing.
>
>If and ONLY if you have Netscape 2.0, go and check out this URL:
>
>http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SFKanimate.html
Went there and am suitably impressed. It is really neat and impressive.
>
check out THIS url:
>
>http://members.aol.com/SpyderWebz/index.htm
>
Couldn't get the navigator to go to this one. Sorry.
Thanks,
Donna Burns hozdmb@r.......
Diehard, FK, Highlander, ST, B5, X-Files, L&C, Sime/Gen, Pros, S/H, DS
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 20:43:17 -0700
From: Ted Atkinson <llacroix@i.......>
Subject: Uncle -- VCR Alert
Be sure to watch Uncle in "Back in Action" this Saturday night at 11:00
(Mountain time) on Cinemax.
It may surprise you to know that he's playing the "bad guy" :) <vbeg>
Ted Atkinson Cousin -- and damn proud of it!
llacroix@i.......
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 20:28:58 -0800
From: Lisa Marvin <WYLLOW@e.......>
Subject: New Vampires on the Block!
Does anyone have any info on the new FOX show "KINDRED--THE EMBRACED"? Can
you believe that FK is going the way of dust and here comes a new show right
around the corner??? Could it be that Nick, Nat, LC and Vachon are movin' on
up to a new neighborhood? This new show airs in Denver on April 2 and looks
to be full of the dead ones...but not the ones we know and love so dear....
Any info???
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 23:31:58 -0500
From: "Alora C. Chistiakoff" <acc0924@i.......>
Subject: Re: What did Kay do?
On Fri, 22 Mar 1996, LC Fenster wrote:
> And, while we're talking about the *crimes* of Kay Koplovitz, let's not
> forget the following: dumping Janette, dumping Captain Cohen, possibly
> impacting on John K's decision to leave, inflicting t&a sleeze and
> "Let's get naked!" on us, LaCroix Lite, and Tracy Vetter.
Laurie,
In reference to the less-than-total-accuracy in my original response,
thank you for clarification.
And thanks for adding these too...I forgot too toss them on to the pile
as well.
Alora
<acc0924@i.......>
Natpacker * Nick&NatPacker * Valentine
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 21:25:52 -0700
From: Ted Atkinson <llacroix@i.......>
Subject: Re: What did Kay do?
>And, while we're talking about the *crimes* of Kay Koplovitz, let's not
>forget the following: dumping Janette, dumping Captain Cohen, possibly
>impacting on John K's decision to leave, inflicting t&a sleeze and
>"Let's get naked!" on us, LaCroix Lite, and Tracy Vetter.
She should be forced to watch crap like Campus Cops and wrestling in marathon
Clockwork Orange style sessions.
I see an opportunity to make a lot of money marketing KK dartboards. Anybody
have a picture?
It would be nice if LaCroix could pay her a visit -- cuz his people cry out for
REVENGE!! CHOMP!!!
Ted Atkinson Cousin -- and damn proud of it!
llacroix@i.......
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 19:51:27 -0900
From: Muldy Sculler <ffbmh@a.......>
Subject: Re: Feedback from the Dominion...
"Most series are never released to video" Hello--Highlander is on video,
Star Trek, Star Trek NG, Blake's 7, Dr. Who. Red Drawf.... Sorry not
enough room to continue. My little fingers are tired from typing the
tit "not released" to video--where there is an audience there is profit.
I can see it happening. Hey, a season of Highlander will cost roughly $160.
I ask all of you: would you spend $160 for high-quality uncut video sets
of FK?
Creature from SciFi bite me,
Barbara
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 01:32:41 -0330
From: Paula Hurley <phurley@b.......>
Subject: New FK time slot
For anybody who gets FK on the FOX station WUHF 31 out of Rochester, I
thought you might like to know, if you did not already, that FK has been
moved from 1:30 am EST on Saturday nights to 5 am EST on Sunday
morning/Saturday night. I do not yet know if this is permanent, although
I truly hope not. For anybody who lives in Rochester, maybe you could
call WUHF and find out? I would appreciate knowing why they changed it.
Paula
Dark Knightie/
Light Cousin/
Valentine/
Nick&NatPacker/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 22:54:40 CST
From: Wicked One <WickedOne@h.......>
Subject: familiar face on Airwolf
FO>He was a young guy, not unattractive, with short red hair, big ears,
FO>it out (I _hate_ it when that happens), but it finally came to me: Screed!
FO>Sure enough, the end credits listed Gregory Kramer. (BTW, yesterday's
For some reason, it is far, far easier for me to imagine LC in a grape
flavored edible thong than to imagine Screed with.... hair. Seems Mr
Kramer is a multi-talented guy!
Wicked Cousin Tippi
Ask me about my chapbook LA MORTE D'AMOUREUSE!
(WickedOne@h....... or TippiNB@a.......)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 05:02:31 GMT
From: Hilary Doda <katya@i.......>
Subject: Re: FK Shirts/Jackets
>The t-shirts come in black with the logo in white and individual
>faction on the front pocket (unless you want *all* of your factions on
>it, which won't fit on the pocket...mine has: "Natpacker * Nick&NatPacker
>* Valentine" across the bottom of the back).
I'm definitely interested! Is the logo across the front pocket, or is it
just the faction?
I'll be in TO...In fact, I'm always in TO...How much would the shirt be in
Canadian cash? Can you fit "Vaquera" and "Raven" on the pocket?
Dona Katya
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 23:33:09 CST
From: Nancy Kaminski <nancykam@m.......>
Subject: Re: Er... Hi
Jean--
Is there any UNCLE fanfic on the internet? I've been a fan
since the beginning (had a major crush on David McCallum is
4th grade, as did all my girlfriends). If not on the net,
where?
Thanks!
-------------------------------------
Name: Nancy Kaminski
E-mail: nancykam@m....... (Nancy Kaminski)
Date: 03/22/96
Time: 23:33:09
"I wish I could think of a clever sig..."
-------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 23:30:51 -0600
From: Margie Hammet <treeleaf@i.......>
Subject: Re: Er... HI!
>1) What aspects of this series first attracted you to it and kept you
>watching?
I liked the fact that in it's own inimitable and humorous way, it poses
philisophical questions, usually by La Croix, and leaves them as dilemmas to
be worked out by Nick. In many cases these little "dilemmas" are Hobson's
Choices for Nick, posed by La Croix for his own amusement as well as
manipulation, meant to discourage Nick from his desire to become mortal and
also moral.
Newton (treeleaf@i.......)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 22:32:57 -0800
From: "Toni C. Holm" <tch@w.......>
Subject: Ahhh the power! SciFi
On Fri, 22 Mar 1996 19:59:02 -0500 Lillian Feden said:
>I am happy to say that the rest of the cable committee is in agreement with me
>about which company to choose, and that is the one that has the SciFi Channel as a
>BASIC channel. Now, that's not anyone's criteria but mine, and I never said a
>word, but I'm grinning like a fool.
Congrats! Now I know you would never actutally *do* anything like
this (oh no<g>), but I hope you will write USA Networks and *tell* them you
personally convinced the whole 230 units to go along just because you want
to watch FK!
No joke, do it! ...money talks and .... well you know the rest --
(except at USA it seems to do both... And they do own our friends at SciFi).
Let them know we're making lots of money for them.
-Toni <tch@w.......>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 01:46:14 -0500
From: Cousin Candice <winter@j.......>
Subject: The Request Lines Are Open...
Well hello out there my listeners (oops...wrong .dis list)
*ahem*
So, where was I? Oh, that's right -I've got a radio show tonight, feel
like making a request/dedication? Feel free ;) I've already got a
number from Diane E. The Unaffiliated, some Cousins, and some Mercs.
And a request from your favorite D.J.: MORE DRINK RECIPIES!
Is this ok? Can I post his? ..well I will anyway ;) ...(painkilelrs are
WONDERFUL things...)
Yours,
Candice -obsessed by memory, befriended by desire, Cousin by choice
Toreador by default
winter@j.......
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 01:06:29 -0600
From: The Other Immortal <phoenix@i.......>
Subject: YKYB...
You know you've been watching too much FK when you're watching "Planet of
the Apes" and when Zira yells "Lucius!", you wonder what he's doing out in
the daytime.
OIy, "Beneath the Planet of the Apes" is next. USA "Planet of the Apes"
Marathon. ABout the only good thing they've done in QUITE a while.
Tomorrow are two more! I need a life...
Yeah, right.
Cousin "Susan" Phoenix, The Cousin Who Ate All The Sushi In Japan
phoenix@i.......
**MSTie Mad Scientist Somewhat-Extraordinaire** *I'd be nothing if not cold.*
I'm gonna live forever, or die trying. ~~~ Me
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 02:12:20 -0500
From: Apache <lf@c.......>
Subject: Re: VA Party Quote List
Well, folks, now that I've actually seen the quote list for the
party I couldn't make it to... all I can say is, it sounds like it
closely resembled the high-fever delirium I was enjoying in its place.
Thank *all* you guys for the cow... it immediately became the single
tackiest thing I possess (it plays "Old MacDonald Had A Farm" AND has
animal sound effects, for those of you not personally privy to its
wonders). It has big sad eyes like Vachon (allegedly, but let's go back
to that delirium theme as an explanation for this delusion), and occupies
a place of honor in my living room. The duck sound effect is beyond
cool...
And thanks for the Ribena, too. I am now an initiate of the "oh
my God, yuck!" club.
Fondly, and more thanks and waves to everyone,
Apache (Laura)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 11:36:42 -0500
From: Diane Shea <KerrRaven@a.......>
Subject: Cousinly Essentials?
Well I guess we must add barbed wire to the list of essential things a Cousin
must have at hand.
Gehirn wrote;
>>And they're always asking you where you got the barbed wire, or, "did you
*shoot* that?" and you wonder what *they* would do in bed with LaCroix if
they don't even know where to get barbed wire.....<<
As an artist myself I know where to kind crow claws and raccoon skulls but I
never had a need for barbed wire. Now I'll have to go look!
Skipping off to JADFE to think about new uses for bright shiny barbed wire
and Uncle.
--Cousin Diane
*Valentine*
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 01:25:43 -0800
From: Cousin Cherri <cdmunoz@e.......>
Subject: Re: I AM the Webgoddess...
>I have just learned how to do a really really really neat thing.
>
>If and ONLY if you have Netscape 2.0, go and check out this URL:
>
>http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SFKanimate.html
Went there and am suitably impressed. It is really neat and impressive.
>
check out THIS url:
>
>http://members.aol.com/SpyderWebz/index.htm
These sites are just too cool. WOW!!!!
Cousin Cherri Valentine, Sime/Gen, FKLFE
<cdmunoz@e.......> NATPE Strikeforce Survivor
I don't WANT a new one. I LIKE that one. <LaCroix-Father's Day>
Save FK: http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 05:24:44 -0600
From: "Angula G. Tucker" <agt4@r.......>
Subject: FK on SciFi channel
The only original series (instead of old scifi series and movies) are
informative like Inside Space, the Anti-Gravity Room, Sci-FiBuzz, and
maybe Miracles, Mysteries, and ??. Thjey are all 30 minutes and are not
fiction.
Hate to burst your bubble, but I guess it will be one of those classic rerun
series that lasts for a few weeks, or shown once a week like War of the
Worlds, or 5 nights a week like Friday the 13th. But I guess we can dream.
Angula Tucker, X-Phanatic
Department of Counselor Ed. & Ed. Psych. Mississippi State University
"If coincidences are only coincidences, why do they seem so contrived?"
------Mulder, Clyde Bruckman's Final Repose, X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 05:27:19 -0600
From: "Angula G. Tucker" <agt4@r.......>
Subject: Episodes left
Man!!! Only four new episodes left!!! Yuk!!!!
Angula Tucker, X-Phanatic
Department of Counselor Ed. & Ed. Psych. Mississippi State University
"If coincidences are only coincidences, why do they seem so contrived?"
------Mulder, Clyde Bruckman's Final Repose, X-Files
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 07:01:52 -0500
From: Michelle Mark <Raindance2@a.......>
Subject: Uncle and Janette
Laurie writes:
<<That was one of the problems with Janette as well: except in Fate
<<Worse Than Death, we rarely saw her interact with LaCroix, for example.
<<Defining the relationship between the two of them was therefore almost
<<impossible, because the evidence was so skimpy. As I said in my
I always wondered about Janette and LC's relationship. Forgive me if this
has been asked and answered before but....whats the deal? Or what is the
general consensus? Were they an item or strictly platonic, like in a
father/daughter way? I always had the impression that their relationship was
strictly platonic. If I am missing something in my interpretation, by all
means enlighten me.
Cousin Michelle
*************
"He who dies with the most prizes....still dies."-The Nightcrawler
*************
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 07:43:46 -0500
From: Katja Stokley <cstokley@c.......>
Subject: Re: Does Tracy know??
On Fri, 22 Mar 1996, Cork, Lisa A. wrote:
> Anyway..to get to the point does Tracy know Vachon is a vampire?/
Yes.
> But I thought she doesn't believe in vampires....
> I know she has no clue that Nick is a Vampire.
She does now, but she doesn't want Nick to know that she believes in
vampires. Nick knows that Tracy knows, but doesn't want her to know. So
they're always dancing around each other, and now it's Tracy who's always
disappearing in order to check with Vachon - it used to be Nick always
disappearing, and not letting Schanke know what was going on.
Katja Stokley -*- cstokley@g.......
-*- Enter any 12 digit prime number to continue -*-
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 08:03:08 +0000
From: Karen Tobin <ktobin@t.......>
Subject: My Web Page
Hi, Everyone!
Just a reminder that my web page is up. It contains (mostly) text
files of the results of the various address projects I've been
working on. (National addresses, such as USA, Sci-Fi Channel,
Sony/TriStar; syndicated stations, including addresses, contacts and
time and date FK is shown; sponsors addresses...) The list of
stations is the most complete one we have.
Think of it as a little annex to Jamie's page.
Please come visit. My web counter is moving up VERY slowly. (Okay I'm
the _only_ one who ever visits, to make sure everything's working when
I do an update!)
Karen, Knightie/Heartbreaker (ktobin@t......., http://www.tiac.net/users/ktobin)
Reference Librarian, Save Forever Knight Campaign/Almighty Address Goddess
Forever Knight has been cancelled. To help, email me
and/or visit: http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 08:01:33 -0800
From: Lisa Reeves <ad483@d.......>
Subject: Re: I AM the Webgoddess...
Donna wrote:
> >http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SFKanimate.html
>
> Went there and am suitably impressed. It is really neat and impressive.
Second the motion....way cool.
> >http://members.aol.com/SpyderWebz/index.htm
> >
> Couldn't get the navigator to go to this one. Sorry.
THIS, however, blew me away. How did you get those little buggers to MOVE???
Even the legs????
--
Lisa Reeves @-->--->--- | ad483@d.......
GDFN Help Staff | Mercenary for Chocolate
Save Forever Knight! Site for details:
http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 08:50:51 -0500
From: Jamie Melody Randell <immajer@p.......>
Subject: Re: New Vampires on the Block!
On Mar 22, 1996 20:28:58, 'Lisa Marvin <WYLLOW@e.......>' wrote:
>Does anyone have any info on the new FOX show "KINDRED--THE EMBRACED"?
Well, they use contact lenses -- but not as good as the ones on FK (otoh,
they probably allow the actors to see better)...
A brief listownerly reminder, here, that this is the Forever Knight list,
not the Kindred list, and the only permissible discussion of Kindred is in
the context of comparing it with FK.
Like, for instance, "Can you BELIEVE that this lame piece'o'crap is
debuting with bells on, when FK's been trashed?"
Y'know, that sort of thing. <g>
--
<------- Jamie M.R. ------ immajer@p....... -------> <- SAME ->
<--The Illustrated Cousin (but I'm NOT a Cousin)--> <- SIG ->
<--Cinnamon NatPack/Merc, AthCoS, Asst. Listowner--> <- :-) ->
<-Photo #1: Me and Mo', bouncing with the Natpack-> <- DIFF ->
<-Photo #2: Sharon, making me eat eel and love it-> <- DAY ->
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 09:28:09 -0500
From: Janette Z <Janette92@a.......>
Subject: New Episodes?
Does anyone know when the new episodes are starting? Today, right? (Hey,
I can dream can't I?)
Ravenette, Immortal Beloved
CO-CFW for Evil MacLeod
Richie Reservist,
Janette92@a.......
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 09:40:05 -0500
From: Jamie Melody Randell <immajer@p.......>
Subject: Re: Nick&Nat; Nat&LC
On Mar 21, 1996 17:06:47, 'LC Fenster <lucienlc@i.......>' wrote:
>Suffice it to say there is plenty of evidence in Games Vampires Play
>and Human Factor for the fact that Nick does as Nick pleases,
>regardless of how Nat or anyone else (except LaCroix --sometimes) feels
>about it.
Mmm. And (again, being intentionally vague, to avoid having to move this
thread to fkspoilr) there is also clear evidence that Nat's outlook has
affected Nick; and that he likes it that way, in fact has come to rely on
it. (I am thinking, in the first example, of Nick handing an item to
Nat...) Of course Nick does as he pleases; he's not a robot. But he's
recognized, or is beginning to recognize, the fact that What-Nick-Wants is
not necessarily what's best for him, nor the most favored option in a given
situation.
(I am not referring to HF; there is no way we can rip that ep apart without
spoiling it; Laurie, if you wanna, I'll meet you over on the spoiler list.
Just you an' me; three o'clock, after school. <g>)
>>and in his own muddled way, I think that's one of the
>>things Nick treasures about her.
>funny - I think it's one of the things that annoys him about her. He
>feels the need to put up with it, but he resents it.
WHY does he have to put up with it? Easy enough for him to walk away.
Especially since Nick is the all-time master of avoidance. How many times
has he almost walked away from the cure/Toronto/Natalie/humanity? But he
stays. Why?
Obviously, there's SOMETHING that he wants/needs/desires. And it's either
Nat, Tracy, or Reese... my pick of the three would be Nat...
>>Well, there were certainly sparks flying, although if you mentioned
>>"sexual attraction" to Nat, she'd probably a) laugh incredulously and
>Which is beside the point, even if it were true. Denial does not mean
>something doesn't exist; it just means one is unwilling to face it.
I think that's what I said. :-) But being willing to die rather than
admit attraction is not a particularly good omen for the
beginning/continuance of a relationship, is it?
>And regarding "tear your head off" -- I don't know where the Natpack
>gets this idea that Natalie Lambert is superwoman, that she could take
>LaCroix in a fight, etc. etc.,
Because she has stood up to him more effectively than anyone else on the
show. Better than Nick has, in fact.
>If LaCroix decided she had outlived her usefulness, she would
>live for precisely as long as it took him to drain her. Period.
>Sorry, but that's the way it is, imo
And if Nat wanted to do away with LC, all she'd need is a little
lidovuterine and a stake. Of all the humans we've seen, she's the one with
the most experience with vampires; she'd make an extremely effective
hunter.
Sure, Nat can die; she's mortal. But for LC to simply kill her, that would
be HIS defeat: admitting that he can't outwit her, can't outmaneuver her,
can't win in a battle of wits between them.
And he CAN'T. We know this... because he HASN'T.
>Whereas, in my view, she was fascinated by him from a medical
>standpoint, and he was fascinated to discover a mortal who thought he
>might be capable of redemption. Intellectual, not physical attraction.
Oh, yeah. OtL, BmV, NiQ, that was all intellectual. Yeh. Right. Uh-huh.
>But I should add this: I do think Nat is attracted to Nick, though I'm
>not sure how much of that is physical attraction. I just don't think
>the reverse holds. And, with rare exceptions, their body language when
>they interact is to me purely platonic.
Oh, yeah. OtL, BmV, NiQ, that was all platonic. Yeh. Right. Uh-huh.
Whatever you say, Laurie. Different strokes and all that.
>>>>considering the fact that Nick's been a total bitch to Nat
>>>No argument there.
>>No argument over what? The intimacy, or Nick being a bitch?
>Nick being a bitch. :-)
In the interest of promoting fair haranguing of all the characters on this
show, I re-emphasize the point: Nick's been a complete and total BITCH.
<g>
>>perfectly matched. Except that Nat is a little more self-aware than
>>LaCroix, so in the final outcome, she'd probably win.
>And, as I said above, I don't buy that for a millisecond. As with most
>things in this world, rightly or wrongly, brute power wins.
Yeah? If brute power were sufficient, Nick would be playing
good-vampire-son by LaCroix's side, and Nat would be dead. Why hasn't that
happened?
LC hasn't killed Nat because:
1) killing Nat would indicate his defeat;
2) Nick would never forgive him -- indicating that Nat is in some way
different from Nick's past mortal paramours. True love, perhaps?
>Again, I have to strongly disagree, because I don't see that love, at
>least not on Nick's part. I could see him needing her for awhile after
>he became human (assuming he didn't get killed his first day out as a
>reborn mortal, but that's another issue).
OtL, BmV, NiQ... Nick's got it as bad as any human male could have it for
any woman; and if there's self-delusion involved, it's the same type as in
any purely human relationship. To say that their love won't survive,
that's one thing; there's evidence for that. But to say that there IS no
love, I see as sorta delusional. What happens to that love down the
line... for that matter, what Nick's behavior has done to erode Nat's love
for him... those are separate issues.
>He puts up
>with her *nagging* now, because he needs her. Once he was mortal, and
>felt capable of fending for himself, he wouldn't.
Nick has set Nat in a position (confidante, doctor) where it is her JOB to
"nag" him; he has actively sought out her "nagging", encouraged it, because
it's one of the things that keeps him on the straight'n'narrow. You think
Nat WANTS to have to keep reminding him that "in human society, we don't
bite the bad guys"? He's cast her in that role; so if you're gonna talk
about Nat's "nagging", you'd better be prepared to mention Nick's character
weakness in the same breath. :-)
>>but if both of them were prepared to spend the time and
>>effort working out those problems,
>Not a chance, imo.
Swift and certain condemnation. How do you know? How can any of us know?
The worst obstacle to honest debate is the closed mind... You don't know,
Laurie, and neither do I. Put enough time and effort into ANYTHING, and it
can happen.
Otherwise, why are we still working on saving a cancelled show? (And if
it's impossible, how'd it happen the first time?)
>>There are relationships that thrive on conflict.
>>it doesn't necessarily apply on a global level.
>Never said it did. But neither does the opposite apply globally
>either. Some relationships sour because of conflict; others thrive,
And on this, you're completely open-minded, eh? Not flaming, nor needling;
but there's a huge dichotomy between this statement and your previous one,
Laur. Your impression is that LC and Nat could work out any difficulties,
but Nick and Nat are incapable of it. Doesn't that strike you as a tad,
well, slanted?
>and I'm not convinced that the Nat/LC relationship would not be of the
>latter sort. Where conflict tears people apart, imo, is where there
>are difficulties in self-esteem issues, so a person under fire takes
>the argument as a personal attack.
Where conflict tears people apart is when conflict TEARS. There's a
difference between a healthy difference of opinion, conveyed loudly -- and
the kind of battle of wills that doesn't ever end. Like LC's relationship
with Nick (which unfortunately has been reduced to "I will!" -- "You
won't!" by their difference of opinion, and is not likely to abate until
one of them gives up).
>Since I see both Nat and LC as fairly confident in themselves, I don't see
conflict
>as tearing them apart.
You do????? Both of them????? Oh, well, that explains it. We ARE
watching two entirely different shows. :-) What I see, in both of them,
is rampant insecurity -- but with the determination to rise above the
insecurities; to survive and succeed despite their weaknesses. Which is
why Nat would inevitably triumph over LC: she hates her weak points, but is
capable of acknowledging them. LC cannot admit that he possesses weakness
-- and when he does, he screws up royally. (BMV, in my opinion, is a
classic example of LC making a massive mistake. Something he would've
known better than to do, if he hadn't given in to sentimentality and pain.)
>If, indeed, conflict between them is inevitable. And I don't assume
>that either.
I can see 'em working quite well toward a common goal. 'Specially if that
goal had something to do with Nick's welfare. And you know that I am
capable (sometimes, in the past, on a good day) of writing LC from a
sympathetic pov... but realistically, if we were to translate this into
real life (which is both duller and less satisfying than fiction, imo <g>)
I think LC and Nat would burn each other out.
>>>we all do bring our personal baggage to whatever we watch.
>>Granted, although I do strive for a degree of objectivity
>I think we all do. But...None of us are capable of total
>objectivity.
'Course not. Or we wouldn't be having this debate. But the effort is
interesting.
>And now, a Latin Valentines Day poem:
Here's one in American English:
Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
Tangles of weeds make me itch
LaCroix is undead,
Nat's love is true,
and Nick just behaves like a bitch.
Lovingly awaiting the next volley. :-)
--
<------- Jamie M.R. ------ immajer@p....... -------> <- SAME ->
<--The Illustrated Cousin (but I'm NOT a Cousin)--> <- SIG ->
<--Cinnamon NatPack/Merc, AthCoS, Asst. Listowner--> <- :-) ->
<-Photo #1: Me and Mo', bouncing with the Natpack-> <- DIFF ->
<-Photo #2: Sharon, making me eat eel and love it-> <- DAY ->
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 10:07:19 -0500
From: Michelle Mark <Raindance2@a.......>
Subject: 99 bottles.....
<<Add some codeine, things get obscene,
<<66 bottles of blood in the fridge!
Really??? Pass the codeine! (Shouldn't that be 69 bottles?)
Cousin Michelle (I must get on that JADFE list before I really get myself in
trouble)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 09:19:46 CST
From: Wicked One <WickedOne@h.......>
Subject: Need quote from STF
Hey all,
Last season when Stranger Than Fiction aired, I didn't have a VCR, so I
can't refer back to the ep. So here I am, asking for help! There's a
line (or lines) that Emily Weiss says when she and Nick are in his loft
having a convo. I think they're sitting on the sofa and he asks her
something like why does she write about vampires? I don't remember her
answer in the slightest, but I remember that the *flavor* was something
along the lines of... The biggest decisions most mortals have to make is
whether they want to have white bread or wheat bread on their sandwich,
whereas vampires have to make decisions between good and evil, right and
wrong, life and death, everyday. I *know* she didn't use my analogy,
but this was the 'impression' I got. Thanks!
Wicked Cousin Tippi
Voyeur of the Menage LaCroix
(reply to: TippiNB@a.......)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 1996 10:31:37 -0500
From: Jamie Melody Randell <immajer@p.......>
Subject: Re: Nick&Nat, Nat&LC
On Mar 23, 1996 09:00:42, '<TMP_HARKINS@d.......>' wrote:
>Yep, I agree, although there have been some instances this season
>where Nat has seen that Nick might not be so "safe". I think she'd
>be afraid of a *real* relationship between them.
So if she's so scared, why's she still around? Especially since she knows
-- has known since FIRST SEASON -- that not having a 'real' relationship
with Nick is no guarantee of safety?
>But what about Nat being a bitch? People can say that she has a right
>to gripe because Nick says he wants to be mortal all they want, but
>that doesn't change the fact that Nat has been quite a bit more
>unpleasant to Nick this season.
You mean, after her friends died in a plane crash and NICK followed it up
by nearly leaving her without even saying goodbye? You mean, after NICK
did the horizontal boogie on the spirit plane and *called her to tell her
about it*? Can you possibly be inferring that Nick's behavior has NO
bearing on Nat's attitude?
I think the question to be asked here is, "If a man treated ME the way Nick
treats Nat, what would I do?" Personally, I'd smack the smug grin right
off his silly face. I think Nat's been extraordinarily kind and tolerant
toward Nick's frequent spasms of self-absorption and insensitivity. But I
guess other people are accustomed to other sorts of interpersonal
relationships.
>Perhaps some of Nick's treatment of Nat is a reaction to her attitude
toward him.
Just one problem. Nick fired the first shot. (Black Buddha? Leaving town
without telling Nat?) Nat is perfectly justified in any and all suspicion
over Nick's actions and motivations. I mean, she was grieving too, and he
nearly went off and LEFT her... what kind of man does that? Actually, MEN
don't do that.
>Most people do better with support than with criticism.
Except that in this case, "support" is equivalent with "acceptance of the
vampire". Nick can get all the "support" he wants by visiting LaCroix. As
I said in my previous post, Nick has SPECIFICALLY set Nat up to be his
second conscience; to remind him of what he needs to do to achieve his
desired goal.
And there is a MASSIVE DIFFERENCE between criticism and "being bitchy".
The first is justified. The second is not. Nat's attitude is justified,
five different ways. Therefore, she is not being a bitch. Case closed.
>While I won't argue that Nick is self-centered, that doesn't mean that
>he is totally incapable of having relationships. He spent 97 years
>with Janette
And was apparently so unaware that there were problems festering that, when
she upped and left him, he didn't have a clue as to why she was unhappy.
But then, there are many things about Janette on which Nick is utterly
clewless... oops, spoilers. <g>
>Nat has certainly been intent on pointing out the
>errors of Nick's ways (particularly this season).
As I said: this is PRECISELY what Nick *wants* her to do. He wants to be
human; aside from the physical problem, he hasn't had experience in
behaving like a human in 800 years; he needs Nat to teach him, and he knows
it. Both in terms of the situation AND in terms of the way the show's
premise was constructed, Natalie's role is to help Nick be human.
Considering his behavior, she's got her work cut out for her. :-)
>This season she has seemed to me to
>be heavier on criticism of his actions, which I think has to make him
>feel more alienated from humanity.
His actions this season have been particularly brickish. See comments
above.
>I agree that he's been getting annoyed, but because she's been more
>critical than "enlightening". He looks to me like he's getting very
>tired of her harping at him.
Looks to ME like he's beginning to completely despair of finding a cure --
and that Nat's "criticism" is the only thing keeping him anchored. It's
surely the only thing that kept him in Toronto.
>And that "to the degree that either of them ever trusts anyone" is
>one of the stumbling blocks to any *long term* romance... Trust has
>to be a major element in a relationship and neither of them are people
>who feel that they can totally trust someone else.
But Nick and Nat HAVE established a level of trust. Frayed this season by
his actions, but trust nonetheless. Unless it's your contention that
because of their difficult pasts, both Nick and Nat are inherently
incapable of sustaining a relationship of any sort. Which we've seen
evidence of, in Nick's case...
>We know that in the Canadian version of
>Only the Lonely Nick tried to hypnotize Nat into forgetting him, which
>kind of argues against the above quote.
Nope; just outlines how careful vampires have to be, in protecting their
secrets. Vachon tried to whammy Tracy, too. That's what they DO.
>I agree with you, Laurie. Nat is a mortal; LC is a vampire. Nick
>couldn't kill LC by staking him and burning him. I don't see how
>anyone could think Nat would have a *ghost* of a chance against LC.
>She's alive only because LC feels no need or desire to get rid of her.
She's alive because if LC killed her by brute force, it would be as good as
admitting that she's too bright/cagey for him to triumph on an intellectual
level. And because LC knows that if he killed her, Nick would never never
never forgive him; the same way he's never forgiven Nick for allowing Fleur
to die.
And LC is alive ONLY because Nat is too compassionate to go down to the
Raven by daylight with a sunlamp and a stake.
And as far as Nick not killing LC... as I recall, in Dark Knight, Nick
thought LC could be killed by impalement on a metal rod. So Nick's not too
bright in that regard...
>And that's another thing that could drive Nick and Nat apart eventually.
>Nat has a "controlling" nature just like LC.
What version of FK are you watching?
>Nick thinks Nat is too controlling (his comments in the morgue when
>she won't let him have the drug in The Fix).
In that scene, Nick is *stoned*. Very, very stoned. Stoned people are
paranoid. Fact of life.
>He's had enough of that from LC and if he felt too much "control"
>from Nat, he'd be out the door before long.
So since he's still here, I guess he doesn't feel that way...
>Again, agreed, except that I don't think Nat fulfills his need for
>acceptance because she's only able to accept the human side of him.
Um, this is the same Nat who sat through his tantrum in Feeding the Beast,
and forgave him without a second thought? The one who nearly got killed in
SoB, yet came over to his loft afterwards, alone? The one who asked for
immortality in AMPH?
If Nat doesn't accept the vampire in him, it's because NICK doesn't accept
it. And because that's what he wants and NEEDS from her.
>He likes the fact that she supports his aims to be mortal and live
>as a human, but there has to be a part of him that wishes that she
>could accept *all* of him.
The same part of him that wants to take her and drink her blood. But I
think he understands the truth of the situation pretty damn well.
>I also think Nat (and perhaps Nick to a degree) *think* they would
>like a relationship with each other. I'm with Laurie when she says
>that Nat's afraid of a "real" relationship with a man.
We have seen absolutely no evidence to support this contention. The only
relationships we've seen Nat in haven't been with men. (I don't consider a
serial killer to be a "man".)
>Nick, too,
>might experience some fear if he was mortal again (although Nick,
>being Nick, would tend to toss his doubts aside more and be more
>willing to jump right in).
The first story I ever posted to FKFIC-L (before I was even subscribed to
FKFIC-L) outlines my belief in this matter fairly lucidly. I think
Nick-as-mortal survived two hours into his first duty shift.
>This is the same man, after all, who, despite being
>jealous of Roger in Only the Lonely, was able to put aside his personal
>feelings and encourage Nat to pursue that mortal relationship if it was
>what she wanted.
True. Maybe it's a good thing the boy's so utterly selfish most of the
time. When he gets noble and self-sacrificing, people REALLY suffer. :-)
>Well, without mentioning spoilers for third season episodes, I would
>say that Nat this season has been even more physically attracted to
>Nick. Certain comments of hers regarding "sex" have shown a very
>visible level of frustation at not getting any with Nick. :)
Especially while he's porking native babes on the spirit plane.
Frankly, that would frustrate me, too.
>I think Nat's nagging would be capable of driving Nick away if she
>kept up with it too much after he became mortal.
I don't think Nat would feel the need to "nag" (e.g. 'Nick, you shouldn't
be drinking blood' 'Nick, don't bite that perp!') if Nick were mortal.
Not the same way.
>I think there are still other things that could
>drive them apart eventually.
Granted. But let's not forget one thing. If Nick were to become mortal,
there's absolutely no reason for them to continue to live the same way they
have been. He has money up the wazoo; and no reason not to spend it. They
could spend the rest of their lives sunning themselves on some beach
somewhere -- avoiding EXTERNAL conflict -- and focusing entirely on
themselves, their relationship, each other. They would have the rest of
their lives to simply *be together*, and if either of them had any sense,
that's exactly what they'd do.
>Nick, on the other hand, thinks all his problems stem from being a
>vampire. If he became mortal again, he'd find that that doesn't
>cure all his problems (and certainly not the psychological ones).
We agree! On *something*! Finally! :-)
>The crucial thing would be for both of them to recognize that they
>have these psychological problems and work to try to correct them.
>Otherwise, they could argue in such hurtful ways that it would drive
>them apart.
Very true. And very well said.
>LC has the
>potential to *totally* destroy Nat psychologically since he isn't
>the type to want an "equal" relationship with anyone.
I believe Nat has the equal ability to screw with LC's head. Without going
into spoilers... take a close look at the pivotal scene in Fever. Nat's
reaction is completely and totally NOT what LaCroix is expecting. This is
the sort of thing that can drive your average two-millennia-old Roman
general to absolute distraction, over the long term.
I do think that the three of them make a fascinating trio, though. And
have had a great deal of fun exploring the theme in my fiction, a la
FIHS... Realistically? Nat, in that family, would stake LC inside of a
week -- a year, at the outside -- and none of this Dark Knight nonsense;
she'd make good and sure he was dead. And would then be very happy with
Nick, until the point when she decided to up and leave like Janette did.
Otoh, it's equally possible that Nat might just 'tame' LaCroix. If anyone
could do it, she could.
--
<------- Jamie M.R. ------ immajer@p....... -------> <- SAME ->
<--The Illustrated Cousin (but I'm NOT a Cousin)--> <- SIG ->
<--Cinnamon NatPack/Merc, AthCoS, Asst. Listowner--> <- :-) ->
<-Photo #1: Me and Mo', bouncing with the Natpack-> <- DIFF ->
<-Photo #2: Sharon, making me eat eel and love it-> <- DAY ->
------------------------------
End of FORKNI-L Digest - 22 Mar 1996 to 23 Mar 1996 - Special issue
*******************************************************************
Knight graphics and parchment background created by Melissa Snell and may be found at http://historymedren.about.com/
