FORKNI-L
Digest - 13 Mar 1996 - Special issue
Wed, 13 Mar 1996
There are 41 messages totalling 1001 lines in this issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. Flower Power (3)
2. WCT's ramble on the theory of vampires... (3)
3. Being brought over -- Carouches explained! (6)
4. Kansas City Masquerade
5. Forever Knight and Dark Shadows
6. Flower Power on FK!! (3)
7. Help...nomail
8. Animaniacs cast!
9. The Kindred & Kansas City Masquerade
10. FK in the 60's
11. Closed Captioning
12. No mail
13. more on fangs... (3)
14. Vamps, Sun, Soullessness... (3)
15. CPR
16. Parent Advisory
17. Drop your trousers, become a vampire
18. Nick's meat locker
19. Idle FK Question
20. Star Command
21. More: Flower Power on FK!!
22. The Raven Location
23. Vamps, sun, soulessness . . .
24. Faction Groupings
25. Ravenette Classic meaning
26. Vampires=evil? (was: Re: let's pester Oprah)/Star Command/etc
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 01:08:35 -0500
From: colin paddock <Claudius@n.......>
Subject: Re: Flower Power
At 12:49 AM 03/13/1996 -0500, you wrote:
>No comment on the 70's. College, marriage, divorce, and major surgery are all
>I remember.
>
Something tells me that Lacroix would be into punk rock, while Nick would be
more Beatles\Bay City Rolls type to me. I'm going to bed now...
Cp-
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 01:19:10 -0500
From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: Re: WCT's ramble on the theory of vampires...
Regarding Jason's comments that fangs could be real, I think Tippi
was trying to make a point that it stretches believeability in a
*physical* reason for FK vampirism to have them have retractable
fangs. I was just offering another hypothesis that could fit in the
"physical" cause for vampirism (well *science fiction* physical,
anyway :) ).
Most real-life predator animals, after all, don't have retractable
teeth. Are there any predator animals that *do* have retractable
teeth or retractable fangs?
Of course, it's still possible for FK vamps to have real retractable
fangs, I suppose.
--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 01:30:48 -0500
From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: Re: Being brought over -- Carouches explained!
Tippi writes:
>Hey maybe that's what Carouches are -- vampires made without receiving any
>vampire blood?
Hmm, maybe. I've always thought that vampires give their own blood to
someone brought over in order to make for a stronger bond between
"parent" and "child". I would think a vampire giving his/her own blood
to his "child" might make the child a more powerful vampire too (if
the parent is powerful, that is).
--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......
Someone once mentioned that "carouche" was a social "class" distinction.
(I mean, it is pretty gross to feed on animals.)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 00:40:38 -0600
From: The Other Immortal <phoenix@i.......>
Subject: Re: Kansas City Masquerade
> Maybe Forever Knight, Goosebumps and Kindred aren't so bad...it is
>truly amazing what people can come up with in their "spare" time!
Actually, Kindred is based (loosely, oh, too loosely) on Masquerade.
About the game, though, that's really sad. Vampire (Masquerade) is a GOOD
GAME. I take it as a personal insult that some little brats decided to mar
the name like that. Note, this is not coming from an occasional LARPer
(LARP=Live action role-play), but a dedicated fan (both playing and running).
Yes, vamps are cool, but isn't there something a bit SAFER and more
STIMULATING htat these kids could do than go around risking anything from
AIDS and hepatitis to a ruptured carotid artery?!?!?!? Whoever let them
into the game should kick them out NOW, or if the game was a one-night
story, be more careful with who they let in next time.
And those brats, maybe they should learn a bit more about vamps, like the
symbolism. It's not just the Evil Undead, waltzing around looking for
people to drain. It's a metaphor on humanity, what controls us, our
weaknesses and strengths, and, in the case of FK, a portrait of the
consequences of accepting or not accepting what you really are. Even
Masquerade is more about human struggle and self-discovery than blood and
killing. (This is something the book states all too clearly, blatantly at
the beginning, and then with a veiled subtlety throughout.)
I know someone out there is going to blame FK and such for the incident. I
wouldn't. Blame society and it's fixation with violence; blame the parents
for letting it develop; blame the kids for not using that lump of matter
between their ears; and blame the people who ran the game for letting it happen.
Corruption. Damn the corruption. It's time to let them face the
consequences, and try to repair what they so foolishly destroyed.
Cousin "Susan" Phoenix
phoenix@i.......
One sick puppy.
***Mad Scientist Somewhat-Extraordinaire***
What does a vampyre call a date? Take out.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 00:55:24 -0600
From: The Other Immortal <phoenix@i.......>
Subject: Re: WCT's ramble on the theory of vampires...
Are there any predator animals that *do* have retractable
>teeth or retractable fangs?
Uhhhhhhh... I do. Don't ask, I can't explain it, and I don't have any
witnesses on the list.
Does that count?
Cousin "Susan" Phoenix
phoenix@i.......
One sick puppy.
***Mad Scientist Somewhat-Extraordinaire***
What does a vampyre call a date? Take out.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 02:10:04 -0500
From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: Re: Forever Knight and Dark Shadows
Preta writes:
>Both males became vampirized in the only acceptable (for a North
>American male) way possible: while they were dropping their trousers.
The original Dark Shadows had Angelique curse Barnabas because he had
shot her and she was afraid she was going to die. Barnabas had been
coerced by the witch into marrying her, but he still loved Josette.
I don't remember Barnabas trying to get "in the sack" with Josette
before he tried to off his wife (although he *did* plan to meet her
afterwards). I don't recall whether the newer series Dark Shadows
had Barnabas dropping his trousers. I suppose if you wanted to
*stretch* things in the original series, Barnabas did "party" with
Angelique on Martinique, but that was a while before Angelique cursed
him.
As for Nick, Janette seduced him as a mortal in the flashback of
Dance By the Light of the Moon. She didn't bite him, but afterwards,
she opened the door and let LC in, who bared his fangs and told Nick
that they were going to be friends "for a long...long time." Now
Nick was trouserless because he'd just got finished partying with
Janette, but the actual bringing over didn't take place while he
was in the process of partying with Janette. :) But, of course, we
didn't see what Nick and LC did before LC bit him. ;) But if we look
at Near Death, Nick seems pretty interested in partying with Janette
again (rather than LC) once he comes back as a vampire.
--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 00:39:13 -0800
From: Bonnela Pardoe <bonnie@o.......>
Subject: Re: Being brought over -- Carouches explained!
Sandra Gray wrote:
>(I mean, it is pretty gross to feed on animals.)
Yeah, can you just imagine?
Um, waiter, I'll start with a shrimp cocktail. And I'd like a nice thick
porter house steak, rare. Thanks.
ObFK: someone mentioned pig's blood in a fan fic. Does anyone know why
Nick drinks cow's blood instead of some other domestic animal's?
Availability? And, in that ep with the little girl he got stuck
babysitting, where did he get that big barrel o'blood from and where does he
store it (does he have a walk-in meat locker under those stairs)?
Bonnela (bonnie@o.......) -- Vachon's personal merc, I work for... (well,
we don't need to go into that here <wg>)
"Do you trust me?" -- JDV
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 23:12:36 -0900
From: Muldy Sculler <ffbmh@a.......>
Subject: Re: Flower Power on FK!!
Congratulations, you have learned enough to know that you must keep an
eye of university officials--these folks have nothing to do with
education and everything to do with taking your money. I teach at the
college level, and currently, I am helping a student who has been done
wrong by TPTB.
Vampire Sex Bar--really? What is the address? Like I am going to be in
Toranto any time soon. I love the m=name, do they have t-shirts?
Barbara
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 03:20:57 -0500
From: Sandra Gray <TMP_HARKINS@d.......>
Subject: Re: Being brought over -- Carouches explained!
>>(I mean, it is pretty gross to feed on animals.)
Bonnela writes:
>Yeah, can you just imagine?
>Um, waiter, I'll start with a shrimp cocktail. And I'd like a nice thick
>porter house steak, rare. Thanks.
I meant drink animal blood...raw...whether fresh from the source or not.
Bleh!
I'm not a vegetarian. I eat meat (which I mostly prefer *cooked*).
--Sandra Gray, forever Knightie
--tmp_harkins@d.......
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 04:56:50 -0500
From: Melissa Puzio <miss68@p.......>
Subject: Re: Being brought over -- Carouches explained!
Bonnela wrote:
>ObFK: someone mentioned pig's blood in a fan fic. Does anyone know why
>Nick drinks cow's blood instead of some other domestic animal's?
I don't know why Nick picked Cow, probably because it's easily available and
it tastes horrible. (to vamps.) As for pig's blood, I used it in my recent
bit of fanfic, it supposedly is the closest taste to human blood, of all the
animal bloods. I just don't know why Nick doesn't just zap it in the
microwave. At least then it would taste like steak.
Cousin Mel
NatVampCamp*Amarige Scented NatPacker*Founder of Valentines
http://ansel.mm.informed.net/~virtual/team1/val.html
miss68@p....... or Penchk68@a.......
"Fraid so. Land mines can be so annoying," Lacroix, Interview With the
Nightcrawler
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 02:18:47 -0800
From: Debbie Litchman <debbie8@e.......>
Subject: Re: Help...nomail
At 04:34 AM 3/12/96 -0800, Jerimi Paul wrote:
>NOt to be a me too, but, ME TOO.
I sent the instructions :)
Debbie8@e.......
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 04:46:50 -0800
From: Jackie <ejdjd@i.......>
Subject: Re: Flower Power
At 01:08 AM 3/13/96 -0500, Colin Paddock wrote:
>Something tells me that Lacroix would be into punk rock, while Nick would be
>more Beatles\Bay City Rolls type to me. I'm going to bed now...
Nope, I see LaCroix as a ..........hustle instructor!!
Jackie
Support your local Attorney...Send your kid to Medical School!
ejdjd@i.......
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 07:46:26 EST
From: Dotti Rhodes <104024.3407@c.......>
Subject: Re: Animaniacs cast!
Oh no - don't you blame that on me!! (VBEG)
To all those on the list I APOLOGIZE!!!
Dotti R
Knightie 4-Ever
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 04:53:02 -0800
From: Jackie <ejdjd@i.......>
Subject: Re: The Kindred & Kansas City Masquerade
At 12:40 AM 3/13/96 -0600, Cousin Susan wrote:
>> Maybe Forever Knight, Goosebumps and Kindred aren't so bad...it is
>>truly amazing what people can come up with in their "spare" time!
>
>Actually, Kindred is based (loosely, oh, too loosely) on Masquerade.
>
>About the game, though, that's really sad. Vampire (Masquerade) is a GOOD
>GAME.
Some kind soul actually sent a full explanation of the Kindred Game
to me so that *if*, and that is a BIG *if*, I decide to watch, I'll know
what is going on! If you are interested in seeing it, e-mail privately!
Jackie
Support your local Attorney...Send your kid to Medical School!
ejdjd@i.......
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:01:43 EST
From: Lisa McDavid <D020214@u.......>
Subject: FK in the 60's
Like Scottie, I too began college in the late 60's.
In my entry in the best/worst first lines contest last year, I attributed
LaCroix's bleached buzz cut to his having drained a hippy who was
stratispheric on drugs one night in the Haight.
While I can imagine Nick wearing flowers in his hair, I can't quite
imagine dancing barefooted in the moonlight -- unless, of course, his
dinner had been experimenting with an unusual combination of drugs.
<snicker>
Cousin Lisa -- "That will be trouble."
Lisa McDavid
mcdavid-lisa@s.......
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 05:32:20 -0800
From: Jackie <ejdjd@i.......>
Subject: Re: Flower Power on FK!!
At 11:12 PM 3/12/96 -0900, Barbara (Muldy Sculler) wrote:
>Vampire Sex Bar--really? What is the address? Like I am going to be in
>Toranto any time soon. I love the m=name, do they have t-shirts?
T-Shirts! Great Idea! Any volunteers to bring back T-Shirts (if
they have them)?
Jackie
Support your local Attorney...Send your kid to Medical School!
ejdjd@i.......
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 08:49:58 EST
From: MS SHIRLEY A CLINE <VUYX56A@p.......>
Subject: Re: Closed Captioning
(I'm on digest, so I apologize if this has already been answered.)
Jamie, Our Esteemed WebGoddess asks:
<<Is there any way to make the captioning PERMANENTLY visible on a VCR
tape, i.e. for those of us who have old-style TVs w/o cc capability?>>
I don't have it either, but I did once accidentally record the
vcr's timer display while copying a tape, so it may be possible. Let's
see if I can explain this clearly: if the Closed Captioning display was
turned on the tape your copying from, and you use the antenna jacks
(instead of the A/V jacks) to copy to the second vcr, it just might
show up permanently on the tape.
Is there anyone out there who can test this out?
Cousin Shirl <vuyx56a@p.......>
A-Negative FoFoD
//"I told you from the start, just how this would end, when I get what
I want, I never want it again"--"Violet" by Hole//
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:12:16 -0500
From: Carrie Krumtum <Carrie400@a.......>
Subject: No mail
Hello,
And HELP
The last post I got from this list was on the 7th. Could some kind soul
please e-mail me off list with some suggestions as to how to fix this.
I'm really missing this stuff.
Thanks,
Carrie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:24:34 -0500
From: Tippi Blevins <TippiNB@a.......>
Subject: Re: Being brought over -- Carouches explained!
I wrote:
>Hey maybe that's what Carouches are -- vampires made without receiving any
>vampire blood?
Then Sandra Gray wrote:
>Hmm, maybe. I've always thought that vampires give their own blood to
(snip)
>"parent" and "child". I would think a vampire giving his/her own blood
>to his "child" might make the child a more powerful vampire too (if
>the parent is powerful, that is).
True. But that one carouche in BF didn't look like the most sentient of
creatures. The one that bit Raleigh I mean. Some Carouches might be too dim
to make the connection between blood and bond. Or maybe they don't care to
hang out with others of their own kind. After all, we've seen a Carouche and
a Vampire running around together (V & S), but never a Carouche and a
Carouche. Unless you count Jody and Perry. But I think Jody and Perry's
bond comes not so much from the blood but from their prior relationship.
I just can't see Nick calling something a "lower" form of vampire just
because it prefers animal blood. There must be more to being a carouche than
that. Perhaps it's because they don't share the strong bond that two
vampires share?
WCT
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:25:24 -0500
From: Tippi Blevins <TippiNB@a.......>
Subject: more on fangs...
Sandta Gray wrote:
>Most real-life predator animals, after all, don't have retractable
>teeth. Are there any predator animals that *do* have retractable
>teeth or retractable fangs?
You'd think with all that I know about the animal kingdom that I'd know the
answer to this right off the bat... Hmm... Well, lots of animals have
retractable claws, so it's not so hard to extrapolate and say fangs could be
retractable as well.
One more reason why I don't see how the fangs could be hollow: Those holes
at the tips of their teeth would have to be REALLY small, like the opening in
a hypodermic needle. Why? Well, because we've *seen* the teeth, and they're
sharp and taper to a tiny point. Therefore, the holes would have to be
small. In order to drain an adult human body in a couple of minutes, those
suckers'd hafta be like garden hoses. You ever try to suck a really thick
milkshake through a straw? You'd have better luck sucking a *horse* through
a *keyhole*. I think their teeth are like the vampire equivalent of a can
opener. They make the punctures and drink it down through their mouth (the
esophagus is so much bigger than little teethies). It would be MUCH quicker
to drink the blood than try to suck it through the teeth.
Besides, we see them drinking out of wine glasses all the time. We at least
know they're capable of swallowing. ;)
Wicked Cousin Tippi
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:37:32 -0500
From: Katja Stokley <cstokley@c.......>
Subject: Re: Vamps, Sun, Soullessness...
On Tue, 12 Mar 1996, Frisson wrote:
> Assuming that Nick did kill for survival as a mortal, then
> the crime is the same, but Nick's *perception* of how it affected his soul
> is different.
Nick is judging himself as a vampire by mortal standards. On the one
hand, we do not condemn animals for having to kill their prey, but on the
other hand, we (generally) make a distinction between animals and humans
in that animals do not make a conscious decision to kill or not to kill.
Yes, vampires have to kill to survive, but if your standard of morality
is that humanity is the finest flower of God's creation and must be
protected, than vampires are an evil abomination that has no right to
exist. So Nick's self-loathing is internally consistent, from a human
point of view.
Katja Stokley -*- cstokley@g.......
-*- Enter any 12 digit prime number to continue -*-
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:42:01 -0500
From: Katja Stokley <cstokley@c.......>
Subject: Re: Being brought over -- Carouches explained!
On Wed, 13 Mar 1996, Tippi Blevins wrote:
> True. But that one carouche in BF didn't look like the most sentient of
> creatures. The one that bit Raleigh I mean.
Arghhh! Am I caught in some sort of timewarp of missing bits? I didn't
see the carouche that bit Raleigh, I just saw the bushes rattling.
Katja Stokley -*- cstokley@g.......
-*- Enter any 12 digit prime number to continue -*-
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 10:00:16 -0500
From: Nancy Fralic <fralic@m.......>
Subject: Re: CPR
Having just watched all of season 1 and being part way through season 2
tapes (due to a list member's kindness in sending me the tapes)...
On Tue, 12 Mar 1996, April Ruskin wrote:
> I just came back from taking a CPR course, and it got me thinking. Could
> vampires administer CPR to humans. (If they wanted to.) I mean, their
> strength could kill a person. And what about the breathing patterns? Can
> vampires actually breath more than they have to? Comments anyone?
I cannot remember which ep. (first season) it is, but Nick and Schanke are
guarding a murderer in protective custody in a motel room. He has a fatal
heart attack, but initially Nick administers CPR while telling S. to call for
an ambulance.
Nancy F.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 17:11:56 +0200
From: Marina Bailey <tmar@o.......>
Subject: Re: Parent Advisory
Beth wrote:
Bk>At the risk of sounding like a fuddy-duddy, if I discovered that my
Bk>kid's 6th grade teacher (2 years from now) was using this material in
Bk>English class, I'd be in the principal's office screming pretty fast!
Bk>While I am as big a fan as everyone else, this is not classic literature
My point in teaching *any* subject is to get the children to enjoy it. And
believe me, they enjoy things that adults would never think of. Through a
couple of years of teaching English, I have found topics that they like, and
which make them *produce the best work*. 'Highlander' and 'Vampires' are two
themes that get the kids interested and working well. Of course, I would
never give them an FK story that required understanding of Nick's search for
redemption or any of those subtexts (or show them an episode containing sex
or violence), but the mere idea of a vampire cop is intriguing to them, and
amuses me. So do their responses. Check out "If Only They'd Known" and "All
in a Day's Knight" on the FKFIC web site for two examples of the work of
these kids.
Oh - and guess which was their favourite English reader? Yup - _Dracula_.
A quote from a parent who came to see me last year: "My child says you're
mad, but he loves English." :)
- Marina.
\\ "And tell me if you want to catch that feeling of redemption; //
// That feeling of redemption don't do much for me." - Tanita Tikaram \\
\\========Marina Bailey========tmar@f.......========Knightie======== //
... No matter what people tell you, it is NOT your imagination
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 07:18:24 -0800
From: Preta <preta@e.......>
Subject: Drop your trousers, become a vampire
My comment about 'trouser dropping' was metaphorical as well as
literal. A man makes mistakes (according to popular culture) when he is
carnally distracted by a woman and does things he would not do if thinking
clearly. I was saying that, as in Nick's case, if LaCroix had simply
overpowered him in a dark alley and vampirized him, Nick would not be able
to act as an Alpha male and contend with LaCroix. This is all much more a
comment on the writers than on the characters.
Preta
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 10:16:17 -0500
From: Kimberly Bjarkman <flowper@o.......>
Subject: Re: Nick's meat locker
Bonnela wrote:
[snip]
> where did he get that big barrel o'blood from and where does he
> store it (does he have a walk-in meat locker under those stairs)?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Well, he did in a certain 3rd season flashback <eg>. Not saying more,
in case it's in violation of spoiler protection.
Kim
flowper@o.......
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:00:00 PT
From: Tami LaFrank <tamilyn.lafrank@a.......>
Subject: Idle FK Question
Nick:
Mobster Spaghetti and Chianti by Nicola Nocturna
<ducking and hiding under desk>
Tami LaFrank : TCL58@a....... or TCL20@a.......
Forever Faithful Ravenette :
Owner: Sacred Raven Health Spa : Eat a live frog first thing in the
"Come in, relax. We're dying : morning and nothing worse can happen
to prolong your life" : to you for the rest of the day.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 10:37:17 -0600
From: Sharon Joy <SJoy@u.......>
Subject: Re: Flower Power on FK!!
>Books? Homework? Papers? Wow! Is *that* what I am supposed to be doing
>here? Here I thought I paid tuition to get "free" internet access and
>e-mail account.
My most prized by product of university-relatedness! :)
><Sshh> Just don't tell that guy back home who pays the bills...what's his
>name, again?...oh, yeah: Dad.
Actually, if my daughter at college said she learned to love FK at college,
I'd smile from ear to ear. (She's still lost in Melrose Place & 90210,
bless her heart.) My other daughter (who just graduated) is too busy
playing on the internet and working to get her name up on those screen
credits, although she does humor me and watch with me when she's home. She
also enjoys list excerpts, from time to time, which I dutifully forward to
her.
--------Sharon Joy - A Forever Knightie - SJoy@u.......
There's a past and-----there's a past...
Go here: http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:46:17 -0500
From: "Nancy A. Taylor" <NancyT503@a.......>
Subject: Star Command
I have a good SP speed copy of Star Command and two stereo VCRs if anyone is
still interested in this after reading all the posts about it. E-mail me
privately if interested and we can discuss details.
Dame Nancy
Proud Knight(ie) of the List
<NancyT503@a.......>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 10:44:33 -0600
From: Sharon Joy <SJoy@u.......>
Subject: More: Flower Power on FK!!
Sorry to go on about this but:
In college (in those late 60's and 70's - that ancient flower time), I
always used to say that I majored in science fiction movies (the different
dorms showed free movies, each a different night of the week- Uh, oh -
pre-VCR days), candle-making and other unmentionables. Of course, not to
my parents! I'm pretty sure if the time was now, I'd be like Alora,
majoring in FK, internet, etc.
OBLFKP: Just put together a new video storage thing to hold my FK tapes.
They were multiplying and taking over my living room floor.
--Sharon
--------Sharon Joy - A Forever Knightie - SJoy@u.......
There's a past and-----there's a past...
Go here: http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:53:32 -0800
From: Cousin Cherri <cdmunoz@e.......>
Subject: The Raven Location
Hi all,
Could some kind soul tell me where the Raven is location in Toronto. I
know it's called Santuary. (Well, at least it was before it closed down.)
I have a Toronto tourist map so please indicate major cross road and
buildings if you know them.
Thank you,
Cousin Cherri
"Cousin Cherri" <cdmunoz@e.......> Valentine, Sime/Gen, FKLFE
I don't WANT a new one. I LIKE that one. <LaCroix-Father's Day>
Save FOREVER KNIGHT! NATPE Strikeforce Survivor
http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 08:26:57 PST
From: June Russell <Kat@g.......>
Subject: Re: more on fangs...
:Sandra Gray wrote:
:>Most real-life predator animals, after all, don't have retractable
:>teeth. Are there any predator animals that *do* have retractable
:>teeth or retractable fangs?
Rattlesnakes come to mind. Nick retractable fangs with little hollow cores.
WCT wrote:
:One more reason why I don't see how the fangs could be hollow: Those holes
:at the tips of their teeth would have to be REALLY small, like the opening in
:a hypodermic needle. Why? Well, because we've *seen* the teeth, and they're
:sharp and taper to a tiny point.
Rattlesnakes have nice sharp pointy teeth too. The hollowpart is along the
backside. (Of course, theirs is for injecting, not sucking.)
Other animals who suck things with their teeth have little grooves on the
backside to channel the blood into the mouth. Perhaps this is more like our
vampires?
Kat
Kat ( June Russell )
pacifier.com!grendal!kat kat@g.......
Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:10:01 -0800
From: Frisson <frisson@i.......>
Subject: Re: Vamps, Sun, Soullessness...
>Yes, vampires have to kill to survive, but if your standard of morality
>is that humanity is the finest flower of God's creation and must be
>protected, than vampires are an evil abomination that has no right to
>exist. So Nick's self-loathing is internally consistent, from a human POV
No, it is consistent from *Nick's* POV and Nick is a *Vampire.* To say that
this is a human POV is a very extreme generalization, albeit one that Nick
believes. I see no moral difference between a human eating cow to survive
and a Vampire drinking human blood and I most definitely do not view
humanity as the 'flower of God's creation.' (And I am not an animal rights
activist, or anything such as that. I have no problem with killing *to
survive,* so I don't think of Nick's actions as evil.) Nick does, however,
view humans as somehow better than Vampires, but this is only his POV.
Cousin Diana
mercenary
Frisson@i.......
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 09:20:51 -0800
From: Frisson <frisson@i.......>
Subject: Vamps, sun, soulessness . . .
I just realized that some of you may take offense at my last comment about
animal rights activism and I just want to clarify that I certainly do not
condone the slaughter or ill treatment of animals and I would never harm an
animal for any reason other than survival. (As a matter of fact, I'm a
vegetarian.) My point was simply that when it comes to survival, (and I'm
speaking only of survival) killing is killing and whether it be human or
animal, the act is the same, IMO.
OK? ;-)
~~Cousin Diana
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 11:49:55 -0500
From: "[M A Martin]" <mmartin@b.......>
Subject: Re: more on fangs...
Sandra (I think) asked about retractable fangs... I'm no biologist, but
don't cobra fangs fold back into its mouth? That is, the tips of the fangs
point down the throat so the fangs lie along the roof of the mouth,
enabling the cobra to swallow its food (rats and the like) without getting
the fangs in the way. When they bite, the fangs are lowered. I assume
there are muscles to do this, but I don't know if they are used to raise
or lower the fangs (or both).
Wicked Cousin Tippi commented:
> One more reason why I don't see how the fangs could be hollow: Those holes
> at the tips of their teeth would have to be REALLY small, like the opening in
> a hypodermic needle.
Ah, well, I guess you've never seen a hypodermic needle of large
proportions (like an 18G). The needle is a steel tube and the opening is
made by cutting the tube at a shallow angle.(Does that make sense? If
not, perhaps I can try to explain it again.) That is how the point is
formed, and the resulting hole is much larger than the diameter of the
tube. I always assumed that FK vamp's fangs were the same way, with holes
not just at the tip but extending up the back of the fang as well.
But of course, I actually find the idea of drinking through the fangs
rather silly, myself. But didn't we have JP's statement that that is how
it is done? Besides, I don't think those two little holes would work too
well if they just tried to make a puncture wound and suck blood from the
surface. The flesh (skin, fat, muscle, connective tissue) would just
collapse without something to hold it. This is not to say that a person
who has a puncture wound to the jugular vein wouldn't die of
exsanguination (vamp-aided or not), but that the blood would ooze or flow
out of such small openings in a vein. Now, the carotid artery, while
deeper in the neck, has a larger bore (I think) and a higher pressure.
That one might acutally spurt a bit (yuck) if you managed to hit it.
I've always been in favor of the less-precise sort of feeding - more like
Anne Rice's view. Just rip it open and drink it down. I think this is
more in keeping with an animal's behavior, but why I prefer my vamps to
behave like animals instead of surically precise beings is a topic
for another day.... I am a dark knightie, after all.
We had a long thread about this a few years ago and I'll try to look for
the posts (if I saved 'em). I seem to remember someone trying to calculate
the rate at which the blood would have to be removed and the force
required to suck it out. I believe the conclusion was that the victims
should have some serious hickeys if FK vamps just suck on their flesh (as
opposed to drinking through their fangs). The viscosity of blood is
nowhere near as high as a milkshake and if vamps have anti-clotting
factors in their saliva (like many sanguivorous animals) then they should
be able to suck the blood out fairly quickly if they used a lot of force.
As far as I know, mosquitoes and leeches are the only blood-drinking animals
that actually suck the blood out. Bats bite the skin until it bleeds and
then lick the blood up - just like cats drink milk (eeew).
Meg (mmartin@b.......)
A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg. Samuel Butler (1877)
as found in _There Goes Archimedes_ by S Harris and SN Arseculerane p.63
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:30:44 +0100
From: "Kennedy, Jean" <jkennedy@m.......>
Subject: Re: Faction Groupings
OK, so, here's what I wanna know: I know the Natpack's a pack, and the Ravens
are an unkindness, and the Knighties are a crusade. Did the Cousins ever
decide on a collective name? And here's my newbie question of the month: Do we
Cousins have a "leader"? Has anyone been keeping track of suggestions? Seems
to me we're sort of all for one (Uncle) and one for oneself. I personally
favor a name in keeping with Uncle's air of superiority (pride, confidence,
arrogance . . .). In the absence of any accord, maybe we should submit it to
Uncle and let him decide. Just a thought; might be fun; please don't flame me!
Cousin Jean <jkennedy@t.......>
"Would that she were a less annoying woman." - LaCroix
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 12:54:30 -0500
From: Teresa Davidson <davidson@r.......>
Subject: Ravenette Classic meaning
I don't know if anyone else has responded to Janette Z's inquiry about the
meaning of the term "Ravenette Classic". However, since I am the originator,
I thought y'all should hear it directly from me. I've sent this note to her
privately as requested, but am also posting it here since there are probably
others out there who don't know what the term exactly means, either. Here goes:
In seasons 1 & 2, a Ravenette (and Raven) was simply a fan of Janette.
However, since Janette was founder/owner of the Raven club, her followers
apparently identified themselves as though they would hang out there with her.
Well, when season 3 arrived and I posted my dismay about what TPTB had done
to the Raven club, I realized that everyone reading would not understand
exactly what I meant if I signed as simply "Ravenette". Of course, not only
were my loyalties still to Janette, although she was removed from the show,
but also there was no way that I'd ever willingly allow myself to be
mistakenly associated with new Raven and LaCroix Lite. So I signed my
affiliation as "Ravenette Classic", adopted from the way the Coca Cola
Company differentiated between their old Coke and the new formula Coke a few
years back.
Of course now after Human Factor, which I despised, the meaning of "Classic"
has expanded beyond my initial intention. It also now indicates that I won't
buy the new Janette because I like the old one (and want her back).
Teresa Davidson, Ravenette Classic
davidson@r.......
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 14:29:20 -0500
From: Stephanie Babbitt <stephanie.babbitt@g.......>
Subject: Re: Flower Power
Re vampires' band prefs in the 60s, Colin wrote:
>Something tells me that Lacroix would be into punk rock, while Nick would be
>more Beatles\Bay City Rolls type to me.
Now, seriously, what band could any self-respecting vampire have loved in
the 60s but the Grateful Dead? (vbg)
Stephanie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 14:35:59 -0500
From: Stephanie Babbitt <stephanie.babbitt@g.......>
Subject: Re: WCT's ramble on the theory of vampires...
Sandra wrote:
>Most real-life predator animals, after all, don't have retractable
>teeth. Are there any predator animals that *do* have retractable
>teeth or retractable fangs?
I could be wrong, but I think most venemous snakes have fangs that fold
back against the roofs of their mouths when not in active use. If they were
permanently down, not only could the snake not close its mouth, but it
couldn't swallow its prey whole.
I can live with the concept of retractable fangs. Have you ever seen the
root on an extracted human canine (eyetooth)? It's huge! There's a lot of
room up there in the jawbone for stuff we don't even know about. How about
this scenario: the vampire's fangs rest in back of his (I use the male
pronoun for simplicity) regular eyeteeth, much as a shark has rows of teeth
waiting to move into place as the front row is knocked out. When the
vampire vamps out, the eyeteeth pull up into the gumline, and the fangs
drop into place like a snake's.
Okay, so I'm reaching, but it's fun to speculate.
Stephanie
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 13:24:46 -0500
From: Katja Stokley <cstokley@c.......>
Subject: Re: Vamps, Sun, Soullessness...
On Wed, 13 Mar 1996, Frisson wrote:
> >if your standard of morality
> >is that humanity is the finest flower of God's creation and must be
> >protected
> No, it is consistent from *Nick's* POV and Nick is a *Vampire.* To say that
> this is a human POV is a very extreme generalization, albeit one that Nick
> believes.
I think we're saying the same thing. I agree that it is Nick's view of
humans that dictates his philosophy.
Katja Stokley -*- cstokley@g.......
-*- Enter any 12 digit prime number to continue -*-
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 13:40:39 -0500
From: MSTie Angel <MiSTiAngel@a.......>
Subject: Vampires=evil? (was: Re: let's pester Oprah)/Star Command/etc
JMR pointed out>>Forever Knight is NOT about vampires. It is a drama about
one vampire's quest to REDEEM himself, by regaining his humanity.<<
I can vouch for this!! My relatives (whom I brought across) couldn't believe
I watched FK 'cause I usu. don't like "evil" things like vampires--_my_ reply
was that I watched it because Nick doesn't _want_ to be evil and is
struggling for his redemption (LC, OTOH, _is_ _Evil_--but every "hero" must
have a "villain"). Of course, I watched IwaV for the first time recently
(free HBO preview) and was kinda compelled by that, but more in the
car-wreck-watching sense.
As for Star Command--does the fact that I switched to "Second Noah" after the
first 1/2 hour or so tell you anything? Nigel was good, though, displaying
that LaCroixian _Evil_ he does so well...hmm...you don't suppose LC could've
emigrated to the stars some time in the future <fan-fic, anyone?>?
Back to (semi-off-topic) closed captions--being on digest, I didn't notice
that someone had posted bascially the same thing I had until I'd already
posted it--but I could've sworn WNDS still wasn't captioning Bab5-- or maybe
I'm confused with HL on WABU? How many other people (who aren't technically
HoH) find themselves watching their favorite shows with the captions on so
they don't miss anything?
*Angel 0:)*mistiangel@a.......*Pam in the "real world"*
MSTie # 35267*DueSer*NatPacker*Nick&NatPacker*X-phile
yet another IWWATFTBDDAPGADDGWITOA (I'm annoyed at DC & L&C right now....)
**"Due South" returns!! Fridays on CBS. E-mail duesouth@i....... for
info**
------------------------------
End of FORKNI-L Digest - 13 Mar 1996 - Special issue
****************************************************
Knight graphics and parchment background created by Melissa Snell and may be found at http://historymedren.about.com/
